Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm probably in the minority here, but for me it's a foregone conclusion that it will become a better therapist, doctor, architect, etc. Instead of the rich getting access to the best professionals, it will level the playing field. The average low level lawyer, doctor, etc are not great. How nice if everyone got top level help.
It would still need to be regulated and licensed. There was this [0] I saw today about a guy who tried to replace sodium chloride in his diet with sodium bromide because ChatGPT said he could, and poisoned himself. With a regulated license, there is someone to hold accountable for wantonly dangerous advice, much like there is with humans. [0] https://x.com/AnnalsofIMCC/status/1953531705802797070
Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
171–180 of 262 posts
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#172What if it works a third as well as a therapists but is 20 times cheaper? What word should we use for that?
i’ve had a huge amount of trauma in my life and i find myself using chat gpt as kind of a cheater coach thing where i know i’m feeling a certain way, i know it’s irrational, and i don’t really need to reflect on why it’s happening or how i can fix it, and i think for that it’s perfect. a lot of people use therapists as sounding boards, which actually isn’t the best use of therapy imo.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#173Curious how this can be enforced if business is incorporated in another state like WI/DE ? or offshore like Ireland ??
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#174What if it works a third as well as a therapists but is 20 times cheaper? What word should we use for that?
I think that ultimately the word we should use for this is "lobbying." If AI can't be considered therapy, that means that a bunch of therapists, no more effective than Sunday school teachers, working from extremely dubious frameworks** will not have to compete with it for insurance dollars or government cash. Since that cash is a fixed demand (or really a falling one), the result is that far fewer people will get any mental illness treatment at all. In Chicago, virtually all of the city mental health services were closed by Rahm Emmanuel. I watched a man move into the doorway of an abandoned building across from the local mental health center within weeks after it had been closed down and leased to an "tech incubator." I wondered if he had been a patient there. Eventually, after a few months, he was gone.
So if I could ask this question again, I'd ask: "What if it works 80%-120% as well as a therapist but is 100 or 1000 times cheaper?" My tentative answer would be that it would be suppressed by lobbyists employed by some private equity rollup that has already or will soon have turned 80% of therapists into even lower-paid gig workers. The place you would expect this to happen first was Illinois, because it is famously one of the most corruptly governed states in the country.***
Our current governor, absolutely terrible but at the same time the best we've had in a long while, tried to buy Obama's Senate seat from a former Illinois governor turned goofy national cultural figure and Trump ass-kisser in a ploy to stay out of prison (which ultimately delivered.) You can probably listen to the recordings now, unless they've been suppressed. I had a recording somewhere years ago, because I worked in a state agency under Blagojevich and followed everything in realtime (including pulling his name off of the state websites I managed the moment he was impeached. We were all gathered around the television in a conference room.)
edit: feel like I have to add that this comment was written my me, not AI. Maybe I'm flattering myself to think anybody would make the mistake.
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[*] Westra, H. A. (2022). The implications of the Dodo bird verdict for training in psychotherapy: prioritizing process observation. Psychotherapy Research, 33(4), 527–529. https://doi.org/10.1080/10503307.2022.2141588
[**] At least Freud is almost completely dead, although his legacy blackens world culture.
[***] Probably the horrific next step is that the rollup lays off all the therapists and has them replaced with an AI they own, after lobbying against the thing that they previously lobbied for. Maybe they sell themselves to OpenAI or Anthropic or whoever, and let them handle that phase.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#175Here is what Illinois says: https://idfpr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/idfpr/news... I get the impression that it is now illegal in Illinois to claim that an AI chatbot can take the place of a licensed therapist or counselor. That doesn't mean people can't do what they want with AI. It only means that counseling services can't offer AI as a cheaper replacement for a real person. Am I wrong? This sounds good to…
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#176"One news report found an AI-powered therapist chatbot recommended “a small hit of meth to get through this week” to a fictional former addict." Not at all surprising. I don't understand why seemingly bright people think this is a good idea, despite knowing the mechanism behind language models. Hopefully more states follow, because it shouldn't be formally legal in provider settings. Informally, people will continue…
In a world where a daily dose of amphetamines is just right for millions of people, this somehow cant be that surprising...
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#177Smart. Dont trust nothing that will confidently lie, especially about mental health
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#178What if it works a third as well as a therapists but is 20 times cheaper? What word should we use for that?
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that a foregone conclusion?
Because meat isn't magic. Anything that can be computed inside your physical body, can be calculated in an "artificially" constructed replica. Given enough time, we'll create that replica, there's no reason to think otherwise.
That is a big assumption and my doubts aren't based on any soul "magic" but on our historical inability to replicate all kinds of natural mechanisms. Instead we create analogs that work differently. We can't make machines that fly like birds but we can make airplanes that fly faster and carry more. Some of this is due to the limits of artificial construction and some of it is due to the differences in our needs driving the design choices.
Meat isn't magic, but it also isn't silicon.
It's possible that our "meat" architecture depends on a low internal latency, low external latency, quantum effects and/or some other biological quirks that simply can't be replicated directly on silicon based chip architectures.
It's also possible they are chaotic systems that can't be replicated and each artificial human brain would require equivalent levels of experience and training in ways that don't make the any more cheaper or available than humans.
It's also possible we have found some sort of local maximum in cognition and even if we can make an artificial human brain, we can't make it any smarter than we are.
There are some good reasons to think it is plausibly possible, but we are simply too far away from doing it to know for sure whether it can be done. It definitely is not a "forgone conclusion".
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most therapists barely say anything by design, just know when to ask questions or lead you somewhere. So having one always talking in every statement doesn't fit the method. More like a friend you dump on simulator.
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They are really paying $800 / month to have their feelings validated and receive a diagnosis that absolves them from taking ownership over their emotions and actions.