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Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#161

Post by quantummagic »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #156
quantummagic wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've refuted the point though. There's no reason to think that the apparatus we employ to animate ourselves will remain inscrutable forever. Unless you believe in a religious soul, all that stands in the way of the scientific method yielding results, is time. > Maybe climate change or nuclear war will turn the world into a Mad Max–esque wasteland before we get the chance In that eventuality, it really…

No one has given a point to refute? The OP offered up the unsubstantiated belief that AI will some day be better than doctors/therapists/etc. You've added that it's not impossible — which, sure, whatever, but that's not really relevant to what we're discussing, which is whether it will happen to our society.

OP didn't specify a timeline or that it would happen for us personally to behold. Just that it is inevitable. You've correctly pointed out that there are things that can slow or even halt progress, but I don't think that undermines (what I at least see as) the main point. That there's no reason to believe anything fundamental stands in our way of achieving full "artificial intelligence"; ie. the doubters are being too pessimistic. Citing the destruction of humanity as a reason why we might fail can be said about literally every single other human pursuit as well; which to my mind, renders it a rather unhelpful objection to the idea that we will indeed succeed.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#162

Post by IIAOPSW »

hathawsh wrote: post #13

Here is what Illinois says: https://idfpr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/idfpr/news... I get the impression that it is now illegal in Illinois to claim that an AI chatbot can take the place of a licensed therapist or counselor. That doesn't mean people can't do what they want with AI. It only means that counseling services can't offer AI as a cheaper replacement for a real person. Am I wrong? This sounds good to…

I'll just add that this has certain other interesting legal implications, because records in relation to a therapy session are a "protected confidence" (or whatever your local jurisdiction calls it). What that means is in most circumstances not even a subpoena can touch it, and even then special permissions are usually needed. So one of the open questions on my mind for a while now was if and when a conversation with an AI counts as a "protected confidence" or if that argument could successfully be used to fend off a subpoena.

At least in Illinois we now have an answer, and other jurisdictions look to what has been established elsewhere when deciding their own laws, so the implications are far reaching.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#163

Post by nullc »

II2II wrote: post #134
awesomeusername wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably in the minority here, but for me it's a foregone conclusion that it will become a better therapist, doctor, architect, etc. Instead of the rich getting access to the best professionals, it will level the playing field. The average low level lawyer, doctor, etc are not great. How nice if everyone got top level help.

I've never been to a therapist for anything that can be described as a diagnosable condition, but I have spoken to one about stress management and things of that ilk. For "amusement" I discussed similar things with an LLM. At a surface level, the LLM was far more accessible. I didn't have to schedule an appointment weeks in advance. Even with the free tier, I didn't have to worry about time limits per se. There were…

Why do you think the lack of time limits is an advantage?

There is an amount of time spent gazing into your navel which is helpful. Less or more than that can be harmful.

You can absolutely make yourself mentally ill just by spending too much time worrying about how mentally ill you are.

And it's clear that there are a rather large number of people making themselves mentally ill using OpenAI's products right now.

Oh, and, aside, nothing stops OpenAI from giving or selling your chat transcripts to your employer. :P In fact, if your employer sues them they'll very likely be obligated to hand them over and you may have no standing to resist it.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#164

Post by jakelazaroff »

quantummagic wrote: post #161
jakelazaroff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has given a point to refute? The OP offered up the unsubstantiated belief that AI will some day be better than doctors/therapists/etc. You've added that it's not impossible — which, sure, whatever, but that's not really relevant to what we're discussing, which is whether it will happen to our society.

OP didn't specify a timeline or that it would happen for us personally to behold. Just that it is inevitable. You've correctly pointed out that there are things that can slow or even halt progress, but I don't think that undermines (what I at least see as) the main point. That there's no reason to believe anything fundamental stands in our way of achieving full "artificial intelligence"; ie. the doubters are being to…

The article is about Illinois banning AI therapists in our society today, so I think the far more reasonable interpretation is that OP is also talking about our society today — or at least, in the near-ish future. (They also go on to talk about how it would affect different people in our society, which I think also points to my interpretation.)

And to be clear, I'm not even objecting to OP's claim! All I'm asking for is an affirmative reason to believe what they see as a foregone conclusion.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#165

Post by avs733 »

kylecazar wrote: post #60

"One news report found an AI-powered therapist chatbot recommended “a small hit of meth to get through this week” to a fictional former addict." Not at all surprising. I don't understand why seemingly bright people think this is a good idea, despite knowing the mechanism behind language models. Hopefully more states follow, because it shouldn't be formally legal in provider settings. Informally, people will continue…

> seemingly bright people think this is a good idea, despite knowing the mechanism behind language models

Nobel Disease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease)

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#166

Post by quantummagic »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #164
quantummagic wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP didn't specify a timeline or that it would happen for us personally to behold. Just that it is inevitable. You've correctly pointed out that there are things that can slow or even halt progress, but I don't think that undermines (what I at least see as) the main point. That there's no reason to believe anything fundamental stands in our way of achieving full "artificial intelligence"; ie. the doubters are being to…

The article is about Illinois banning AI therapists in our society today, so I think the far more reasonable interpretation is that OP is also talking about our society today — or at least, in the near-ish future. (They also go on to talk about how it would affect different people in our society, which I think also points to my interpretation.) And to be clear, I'm not even objecting to OP's claim! All I'm asking for…

Well, I've already overstepped polite boundaries in answering for the OP. Maybe you're right, and he thinks such advancements are right around the corner. On my most hopeful days, I do. Let's just hope that the short term reason for failure isn't a Mad Max hellscape.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#168

Post by chillfox »

linotype wrote: post #74
hathawsh wrote: post #13

Here is what Illinois says: https://idfpr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/idfpr/news... I get the impression that it is now illegal in Illinois to claim that an AI chatbot can take the place of a licensed therapist or counselor. That doesn't mean people can't do what they want with AI. It only means that counseling services can't offer AI as a cheaper replacement for a real person. Am I wrong? This sounds good to…

What if at some point an AI is developed that’s a better therapist AND it’s cheaper?

Then laws can be changed again.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#169

Post by 999900000999 »

dmix wrote: post #153
lukev wrote: post #8

Good. It's difficult to imagine a worse use case for LLMs.

Most therapists barely say anything by design, just know when to ask questions or lead you somewhere. So having one always talking in every statement doesn't fit the method. More like a friend you dump on simulator.

[flagged]

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#170

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

quantummagic wrote: post #140
jakelazaroff wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a foregone conclusion?

Because meat isn't magic. Anything that can be computed inside your physical body, can be calculated in an "artificially" constructed replica. Given enough time, we'll create that replica, there's no reason to think otherwise.

It's sort of nice when medical professionals have real emotions and can relate to their patients. A machine emulation won't ever do the same. It will be like a narcissist faking empathy.
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