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We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#31

Post by muzani »

Sam Altman had been pushing hard for UBI back in his VC days [0] He also pushed hard for AI governance, which people probably just laughed off [1][2]. Shortly after those blogs on the dangers of AI, he decides to set up OpenAI.

Dude doesn't go to the trouble of convincing people of his political stances. He just sells the poison and waits for people to manufacture the antidote he's been preaching for all along.

[0] https://blog.samaltman.com/technology-and-wealth-inequality [1] https://blog.samaltman.com/machine-intelligence-part-1 [2] https://blog.samaltman.com/machine-intelligence-part-2

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#32

Post by keiferski »

A program similar to the 1930s WPA seems far more likely and logical than UBI. There is and will continue to be work that an AI bot on a computer can’t do, and frankly the public sympathy for highly-paid white collar employees losing their jobs isn’t high.

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#33

Post by pillefitz »

billy99k wrote: post #23
t-3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With AI/robots doing all the work, money can be created and distributed based on production and logistical efficiency.

I would much rather have Capitalism and own my own work bots, thanks.

Reminds me of the lives of the great philosophers, who, in order to freely contemplate, owned slaves to do the necessary work

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#34

Post by UK-AL »

markus_zhang wrote: post #18

It’s a start but not good enough. We also need a sense of accomplishment, like what do we live for. I know it’s mostly a luxury these days but in an AI powered world, it might be essential to keep people going.

Most work doesn't provide that anyway for the majority of people.

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#35

Post by notashlynx »

I get where you’re coming from. I don’t think UBI is just an “AI future” thing though. Even without AI, we’ve already got a system where wealth is concentrating at the top, and AI just puts that process on fast-forward.

I’ve been lucky enough to use AI daily since ChatGPT went viral, and even from that position of privilege it’s hard not to notice how uneven the benefits are. The people who can adapt quickly or are already in high paying roles will figure out how to use it to make more money. Meanwhile, a lot of folks who could really use a safety net won’t even get the chance to learn the tools before they’re left behind.

And honestly, even AI fluent people are struggling. I know people who use AI fluently for job hunting and still can’t find work, let alone a well paying role. Even I was struggling to find a job in tech a few months ago. If that’s the situation in AI heavy markets, can't even imagine what it’s like in parts of the world where most people haven’t even heard of AI.

So yeah, I agree with you that UBI won’t happen anytime soon. But I also think that if the big players wait until AI has already “disrupted everything” to start talking seriously about it, the gap will be so wide by then that it’ll be almost impossible to close.

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#38

Post by filoeleven »

billy99k wrote: post #21
mockingloris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@billy99k Great question; funding UBI is the crux of the debate. In Nigeria, I’ve seen industries like taxi services get upended by apps like Uber and Bolt, leaving union leaders/cabals scrambling for the scraps. AI could amplify this, automating jobs faster than new ones emerge. One idea is taxing automated systems—say, a levy on AI-driven platforms or robots replacing workers. This could redistribute wealth without…

This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate. I also think that if this much tax money is going to enable people to not work, the people paying taxes should have more control over how the money is used. If health care is universal, more control over foods consumed risky health-related activities.

> This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate.

It only needs to work in the short term for the idea of "the for-profit company" to go the way of the buggy whip, and then we can move on to more interesting things.

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#39

Post by filoeleven »

unnamed76ri wrote: post #5
mannewalis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people will be working, just not everyone will make the jump to a post-AI society, especially older folks I imagine.

I seem to remember a Star Trek episode (not sure which series) where a character is talking about how they’ve evolved past the need for money. Badly paraphrased, and maybe just as badly remembered, but my thought at the time was that if no one is getting paid, how do get low level crew members to sign on? I’d much rather be an officer than scrubbing torpedo tubes.

"AI will take all of the jobs!"

"People will still have to scrub the torpedo tubes!"

How are these not mutually exclusive?

Re: We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world

#40

Post by incoren3 »

Everybody forgets that AI is just a computer.

AI cannot dig ditches. AI cannot harvest crops. AI cannot frame a house, fix a car, or do anything else in the real, physical world. It will never do these things, not because of technical limitations, but because human labor is cheap and versatile.

AI can only really take the jobs of those who sit at a computer all day. Even then, I suspect that the only people who really need to worry over the long term are middle management. And good riddance to them.

But either way, there will be no UBI, so don't hold your breath. Our leadership will let us all starve in the streets the second we are no longer required.

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