Live data from Hacker News

The Framework Desktop is a beast

world.hey.com

231–240 of 464 posts

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#231
post #177

What are more budget friendly options for similar workloads (running web app test suite in parallel)? My test suite currently runs in ~6 seconds on 9700K. Would be nice to speed it up, but maybe not for $2000 :-) Last I checked 13700K or 13900K looked like the price/performance sweet spot, but perhaps there are better options?

>My test suite currently runs in ~6 seconds on 9700K

Absolutely nothing. 6 seconds is about the time it will take you to tab to your terminal, press up arrow, find your test task and run it. There's no amount of money that makes it go from 6 to 3, and no world in which there's any value to it.

In addition, upgrading to a 13900K means you're playing the Intel Dance: sockets have (again) changed, in an (again) incompatible manner. So you're looking at, at the very least, a new CPU, a new motherboard, potentially a new cooler, and if you're going too forward with CPUs, new RAM since Intel's Z890 is not DDR4 compatible (and the Z390 was not DDR5 compatible). Or buying an entire new PC.

Since you're behind a socket wall, the reasonable option for an upgrade would rather be a sizeable one, and most likely abandoning Intel to its stupid decisions for a while and instead going for Zen 5 CPUs, which are going to be socket compatible for a good 7 years at least.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you need Matrix Cores for when you already have a NPU which can access the same memory, and even seems to include more flexible FPGA fabric? It's six of one, half a dozen of another.

I have the HP Zbook G1a running the same CPU and RAM under HP Ubuntu. I have not seen any OOTB way to use the TPU. I can get ROCm software to run but it does not use it. No system tools show its activity that I can see. It seems to be a marketing gimmick. Shame.

[deleted]

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you need Matrix Cores for when you already have a NPU which can access the same memory, and even seems to include more flexible FPGA fabric? It's six of one, half a dozen of another.

I have the HP Zbook G1a running the same CPU and RAM under HP Ubuntu. I have not seen any OOTB way to use the TPU. I can get ROCm software to run but it does not use it. No system tools show its activity that I can see. It seems to be a marketing gimmick. Shame.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43671940#43674311

> The PFB is found in many different application domains such as radio astronomy, wireless communication, radar, ultrasound imaging and quantum computing.. the authors worked on the evaluation of a PFB on the AIE.. [developing] a performant dataflow implementation.. which made us curious about the AMD Ryzen NPU.

> The [NPU] PFB figure shows.. speedup of circa 9.5x compared to the Ryzen CPU.. TINA allows running a non-NN algorithm on the NPU with just two extra operations or approximately 20 lines of added code.. on [Nvidia] GPUs CUDA memory is a limiting factor.. This limitation is alleviated on the AMD Ryzen NPU since it shares the same memory with the CPU providing up to 64GB of memory.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#234
I don't really understand Why one should bother with the pluggable ports in something that's not a laptop. Even in 4.5L, shouldn't we just have "all the ports"?

Also, this reminds me of "SkyReach Tiny":

https://store.nfc-systems.com/products/skyreach-4-tiny

an even smaller case, very versatile. No pluggable gimmicks though.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#235
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe, that is just a Chinese company, isn't it? Say bye bye to warranty and support, repairability. I am not saying you shouldn't consider it but describing Framework merely as cool factor is the other extreme.

For nuance: - framework only sells to specific countries. Warranty won't even be an issue if you can't buy one in the first place. - Chinese manufacturers offer support and warranty. In particular GMKTek does[0]. - Repairability will be at best on par with framework, but better than a random western brand. Think HP and their repairability track record. "just a Chinese company" feels pretty weird as a qualificative in…

Feels like in terms of warranty, support, repairability, it's not so much that Chinese brands have advanced, but that the west has seriously regressed. Every company now is looking to lock me out of my own hardware, extract as much information about me, extract as much value possible by degrading support and compatibility and whatever else they can...

Maybe when we run out of reasons to buy american or european or japanese they will wake up, but I don't see it.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#236
post #113

I was baffled by the comparison to the M4 Max. Does this mean that recent AMD chips will be performing at the same level, and what does that mean for on-device LLMs? .. or am I misunderstanding this whole ordeal?

It's not baffling once you realize TSMC is the main defining factor for all these chips, Apple Silicon is simply not that special in the grand scheme of things.

Why do you think TSMC's production being in Taiwan is basically a national security issue for the U.S. at this point?

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#237
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe, that is just a Chinese company, isn't it? Say bye bye to warranty and support, repairability. I am not saying you shouldn't consider it but describing Framework merely as cool factor is the other extreme.

For nuance: - framework only sells to specific countries. Warranty won't even be an issue if you can't buy one in the first place. - Chinese manufacturers offer support and warranty. In particular GMKTek does[0]. - Repairability will be at best on par with framework, but better than a random western brand. Think HP and their repairability track record. "just a Chinese company" feels pretty weird as a qualificative in…

My post is the nuance, and as a buyer/user of GPD, Minisforum, and Xiaomi products I respectfully disagree.

Chinese companies are not on par with Western ones. The QA, safety measures, hazard compliance, warranty, or even proper English (they use an online translator service) isn't there. Cha bu duo is an accurate description of Chinese products.

From the link you send they offer 7 days return policy. In EU you got 2 weeks, legally enforced. Companies like Amazon offer even a month. Then they have a restock fee of 15%. This is AFAIK allowed (if proportional to the damage to the product) but it does not seem proportional. Companies like Amazon don't do this. And Amazon isn't great; they have a lot of cheap Chinese dropshipping brand. Then they often lie in China as well. They claim leather, when you buy it it is fake leather.

Cha bu duo can be good enough if you are on a tight budget, or if the product isn't available otherwise (how I ended up with GPD Pocket 2 back around 2018). But I have personally witnessed how Xiaomi smartphones fucked up a mid sized non-profit who dealt with very sensitive personal details. They went for budget, ended up with a support nightmare, and something which shouldn't be GDPR compliant. Cause yeah, spyware and bloatware is another issue.

Furthermore, Framework sell to Western countries.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#238
post #185
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think DHH compares them because they are both the latest, top-line chips. I think DHHs benchmarks show that they have different performance characteristics. But DHHs favorite benchmark favors whatever runs native linux and docker. For local LLM the higher memory bandwith of M4 Max makes it much more performant. Arstechnica has more benchmarks for non-llm things https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/08/review-framewo…

After the appstore fight, DHH's favorite is whatever is not Apple lol. TBF it just opened his eyes to alternatives now is happy off that platform.

How long until he clashes with the GPL and discovers the BSDs?

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#239
post #113

I was baffled by the comparison to the M4 Max. Does this mean that recent AMD chips will be performing at the same level, and what does that mean for on-device LLMs? .. or am I misunderstanding this whole ordeal?

It's not baffling once you realize TSMC is the main defining factor for all these chips, Apple Silicon is simply not that special in the grand scheme of things. Why do you think TSMC's production being in Taiwan is basically a national security issue for the U.S. at this point?

> Apple Silicon is simply not that special in the grand scheme of things

Apple Silicon might not be that special from an architecture perspective (although treating integrated GPUs as appropriate for workloads other than low end laptops was a break with industry trends), but it’s very special from an economic perspective. The Apple Silicon unit volumes from iPhones have financed TSMC’s rise to semiconductor process dominance and, it would appear, permanently dethroned Intel.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#240
post #82

I cancelled my Framework Desktop order and ordered a HP Z2 Mini G1a instead, the goal being to replace my Mac Studio as I've had it with Apple's arrogance and lousy software quality. The HP is much smaller, has ECC RAM and 10G Ethernet. Significantly more expensive, however.

Apple have certainly taken a couple steps back re: overall reliability, but if you think that the grass is greener on the other side…pray tell how that goes Plus, you can now deploy [MLX projects on CUDA]( https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983 )

Even if the grass is the same on the other side a 50% discount for the same performance doesn’t seem too bad.
Post reply on HN