Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people • Hacker News Board

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#151

Post by self_awareness » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:48 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #136

self_awareness wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. For a day. A lot of people below the poverty line would spend all the money on trips and luxuiry goods. And would be right back where they've started. Also, the question is why would anyone want to work, if you would be given money for free even if you don't w…

> Also, the question is why would anyone want to work, if you would be given money for free even if you don't work anywhere (I mean, you're below the poverty line)? Because people want more comforts than just being barely above the poverty line, of course there will be freeloaders just as in anything (there are even freeloaders at many companies right now, shocker!) but it doesn't mean everyone that gets some cash to…

It always comes down to the same set of arguments. The rich doesn't pay the price because money is nothing to them. The poorest have additional grants, so life is not that bad for them, even if they don't work. And who pays the most expensive fee for this? Middle class. The actually working class. The class that nobody thinks about, and the class that always funds everything.

In your world, the worst place to be is to be the middle class, because they don't deserve any grants, but still they earn just barely enough to sustain themselves.

Also, the difference between freeloaders in companies and freeloaders in your model of financing the poor is that we generally want to get rid of company freeloaders and we identify them as an unwanted behavior, and you want to encourage social freeloaders and defend their existence.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#152

Post by Herring » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

Agreed, but I suggest that's only part of the story. For some reason, workers in the west don't organize/vote by class any more.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/why-americans-dont-v...

In the US, the last time democrats tried to tackle healthcare, they lost scores of seats all down the ballot.

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/under-obama-democ...

I remember tracking Trump's poll numbers on 538 (before it got taken down) during the pandemic. They barely budged, despite not having universal healthcare. He then proceeded to get the most votes of any sitting president.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#153

Post by dahart » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #127

v5v3 wrote: post #75

There are times when I have been broke and just meant I ate more plainly. 20kg sack of rice is cheap and lasts a while. Flour is cheap. Eggs are cheap Potatoes Canned tuna Etc A lot of those who complain about groceries could swap out what they would rather have until times improve.

>20kg sack of rice is cheap and lasts a while. Flour is cheap. Eggs are cheap Potatoes Canned tuna. Where i am canned tuna hasn't gone up in price, but there is considerably less of it in the can, and noticeably more seawater.

Smaller portion == increased price, no?

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#154

Post by delichon » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

  ... and most of it is taken/given to the owner of the capital, not the provider of labour.

I predict that AI will amplify this trend, because it lowers the demand for routine human labor and raises the return on the agentic (e.g. founder) labor that leverages routine labor.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#155

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

self_awareness wrote: post #116

phyzix5761 wrote: post #76

I did some math a while ago on this topic: 40 million Americans live below the poverty line of $15,000 per year. [1] Total U.S. household net worth (excluding real estate) is around $54 trillion. [2] If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. Here’s the math: 2.5% of $54 trillion = $1.35 trillion $1.35 t…

> If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. For a day. A lot of people below the poverty line would spend all the money on trips and luxuiry goods. And would be right back where they've started. Also, the question is why would anyone want to work, if you would be given money for free even if you don't w…

[deleted]

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#156

Post by garciasn » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Steve16384 wrote: post #73

Exactly the things that a well meaning society should provide to its citizens. What's the point of "progress" if we can't provide the basics to the majority?

Just look at the name of each of the primary groups in the US:

- Progressives

- Moderates

- Conservatives

Progressives, by definition, want 'progress'. Conversely, Conservatives do NOT want progress; if anything, they want regression and thus their desire to roll everything back done in the name of Progress(ives).

Moderates just want to play both sides and find some sort of middle ground; something that doesn't really play well in the US in the current political climate.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#157

Post by ambicapter » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

What is sickeningly upsetting is how difficult it seems to be for our news organizations and talking heads to talk openly about this fact.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#158

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:50 PM UTC

bix6 wrote: post #39

N_Lens wrote: post #25

The current financial system and various corporations see the majority of consumers like livestock - a kind of resource to be exploited. It's better to be free range organic though, in my humble opinion, but the majority seem to be trending towards battery/cage chickens.

What does free range organic mean in this context? To be free range you need significant wealth for the free range. To be organic you need significant wealth for farmers market type food. So in both cases you must be wealthy to avoid the cage or am I missing something?

[deleted]

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#159

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:50 PM UTC

bix6 wrote: post #39

N_Lens wrote: post #25

The current financial system and various corporations see the majority of consumers like livestock - a kind of resource to be exploited. It's better to be free range organic though, in my humble opinion, but the majority seem to be trending towards battery/cage chickens.

What does free range organic mean in this context? To be free range you need significant wealth for the free range. To be organic you need significant wealth for farmers market type food. So in both cases you must be wealthy to avoid the cage or am I missing something?

[deleted]

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#160

Post by gloosx » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 2:50 PM UTC

phyzix5761 wrote: post #76

I did some math a while ago on this topic: 40 million Americans live below the poverty line of $15,000 per year. [1] Total U.S. household net worth (excluding real estate) is around $54 trillion. [2] If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. Here’s the math: 2.5% of $54 trillion = $1.35 trillion $1.35 t…

Yes I did some maths and we should be able to...

...reach highest phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of man to the division of labor has disappeared; when the antithesis between mental and physical labor has disappeared along with it; when labor has ceased to be merely a means of life, but has itself become the first need of life; when, together with the all-round development of individuals, the productive forces have also grown and all the sources of social wealth have flowed in full flow, only then will it be possible to completely overcome the narrow horizon of bourgeois law, and society will be able to inscribe on its banner: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”