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Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

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Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#131
post #18

In the US insurance (of all types: car, house, health) is a major expense and only getting worse.

Vehicles in general. In Houston, I share a car with my girlfriend since I work from home. But some days I don't feel very independent when I want to run an errand while she's at work. I'll look up the price of a used Corolla and think about all the additional expenses, and I'm immediately disabused of the idea. Instead, I decided to book some motorcycle lessons so I can use a $3000 moto. But then I need to pay for li…

Insurance is the problem.

Like it's not even close. I pay about the same per mile for it as I do fuel (!!!!). The cost of my shitty cars is a rounding error. Tires are a rounding error. And my driving record is squeaky clean for close to a decade now. I'm sure they're screwing me for being a statistical contradiction (high income, not diverse, lives in zip code and drives cars opposite of that) because insurance generally hates anything that doesn't conform to the fat parts of the bell curve but it's still insane.

The story on the house side of things is similar. You add in health and the sum total of insuring my life is within spitting distance of my mortgage. I could shove the money into bonds and in all but the worst cases come out ahead, pick stocks and the comparison gets even worse.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#132

I did some math a while ago on this topic: 40 million Americans live below the poverty line of $15,000 per year. [1] Total U.S. household net worth (excluding real estate) is around $54 trillion. [2] If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. Here’s the math: 2.5% of $54 trillion = $1.35 trillion $1.35 t…

That would simply make food and housing more expensive, as it would devalue money, as it increases circulation, because it wouldn't produce more housing and food - just increase demand - unless they "donated" (tax) that 2.5% to increase production, and not to subsidize poverty.

If you could subsidize your way out of poverty, Venezuela wouldn't be poor. They tried printing money and handing it out. It doesn't work. If you don't have enough housing and you take money from the rich and give it to the poor, you still don't have enough housing.

Anyone who thinks "as long as we have higher than 0% vacancy rates, and homeless-ness, we have enough housing," is a moron who has never been on the market to try and rent an apartment or buy a house.

We don't live in a perfect world. You need more than the perfect amount of housing.

The vast majority of home owners in this country are massively against increasing the supply of housing, so good luck 1) convincing them to pay more tax, and 2) spending those tax dollars on the exact opposite of what they want to spend them on.

Homeowners are almost 75% of voters most years. And in most counties (housing is largely a local issue, not a national one) can be >90% of voters.

Homeowner here, and I do agree, it would be a great investment.

But there are lots of great investments that will never happen, because many people would shoot their own head off before they did something that benefited everyone, but didn't benefit them the most.

There's literally a million things we could do to make healthcare more affordable. But we also won't do any of those because of entrenched interests in healthcare, admin, and insurance - and, perhaps especially, people's entrenched interests to continue living unhealthy lifestyles and exporting the cost onto others as negative externalities.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#133

Protip: look for an Asian market in your area for food. I get an entire shopping cart full of food for $60-100 and that lasts for ~2 weeks. When I go to Publix (or any other grocery store), I get like 2-3 bags for $60... Discovering the Asian market has been one of the best financial things to happen to me. Although I'm not really sure how their prices are so low. If someone could answer, that would be awesome!

I believe Asian markets are basically an inversion of the regular grocery store pricing model. Regular grocery stores sell all the stuff around the perimeter (meat, dairy, produce, baked goods, etc.) at relatively high margins and all the shelf-stable packaged stuff in the middle at relatively low margins. It makes sense, one store may have better or worse produce or meat or bakery items or deli items etc. than anoth…

You can get a nice deal if you alternate, yeah - generic "staples" at your local giant or whatever, Asian market for fresher or unique stuff, dry spices from an Indian grocery...

It's only comfort keeping people going to the same store every time. And I guess the hassle of doing two trips a week or something.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#134
post #85
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part where that causes massive inflation.

It does not.

It does. I'm not competing with billionaires for my bananas. A billionaire doesn't eat 10^6 times more bananas than me.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#135

I did some math a while ago on this topic: 40 million Americans live below the poverty line of $15,000 per year. [1] Total U.S. household net worth (excluding real estate) is around $54 trillion. [2] If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. Here’s the math: 2.5% of $54 trillion = $1.35 trillion $1.35 t…

This assumes the wealth transfer doesn’t affect the price of assets and services which is of course bonkers.

More than likely the transfer will happen and affordability will not improve due to inflationary pressures.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#136

I did some math a while ago on this topic: 40 million Americans live below the poverty line of $15,000 per year. [1] Total U.S. household net worth (excluding real estate) is around $54 trillion. [2] If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. Here’s the math: 2.5% of $54 trillion = $1.35 trillion $1.35 t…

> If every household above the poverty line donated 2.5% of their net worth annually to people living below the poverty line, we could erase poverty instantly. For a day. A lot of people below the poverty line would spend all the money on trips and luxuiry goods. And would be right back where they've started. Also, the question is why would anyone want to work, if you would be given money for free even if you don't w…

> Also, the question is why would anyone want to work, if you would be given money for free even if you don't work anywhere (I mean, you're below the poverty line)?

Because people want more comforts than just being barely above the poverty line, of course there will be freeloaders just as in anything (there are even freeloaders at many companies right now, shocker!) but it doesn't mean everyone that gets some cash to be above poverty would just stop working.

It opens their lives to pursue other stuff they wouldn't be able to while fighting to barely survive, they could go to school, take better care of their kids with the free time available, they could look for jobs that are not a dead end because they wouldn't be hostages of working for shitty pay to barely survive.

This argument comes purely from a puritan/protestant belief, the data usually shows that people who get money to cover their basic needs will have better outcomes, commit less crimes, seek education, etc.

Isn't the cost of a minority of freeloaders good enough to provide better outcomes for the whole society? Or do you prefer to keep punishing the poor just in case some of them decide to be freeloaders? Rather inhumane to think that way.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#137
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fairly well to do/employable person, and so is my wife. Together, we should be all kinds of financially stable. But the two largest costs to our finances are ridiculously outsized: Child Care and Health Care. We pay more for our children and health insurance / care, than our house + cars (+student loans) combined. These seem like two areas where intervention is not only possible but likely to help just about ev…

Curious where you live that healthcare is more than housing?

My childcare + healthcare is nearly 3x my house payment.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#138
I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise:

look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%.

And it really is as simple as that. As society we have tremendously increased productivity, and most of it is taken/given to the owner of the capital, not the provider of labour.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did everyone just forget what it was like before Obamacare? Apparently you didn’t know anyone excluded for pre-existing conditions Obamacare also mandated coverage for basic care like your annual physical and many mental health conditions. It’s not perfect, but I guess it’s been long enough that people are forgetting how bad the situation was before.

Heh I wasn't an adult then. All I've experienced is being forced to buy insurance with a premium so high my risk adjusted return for self insuring is actually higher. I was so happy when the individual mandate was finally killed. That was just straight theft by incompetent health care administration.

>incompetent health care administration.

They're not incompetent. They looked at the laws and realized they get the same cut of a bigger number by bloating overhead costs.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#140
post #29

According to https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo... 1 out of 7 US inhabitants have food insecurity. And this is a govt website likely to underestimate the statistic

I have a bit of a gripe with this "food insecurity" metric. The stat comes from people reporting that they have felt hungry without having enough food to satiate their hunger. Totally makes sense at first pass. But here is the rub, obesity is out of control in the US, and it is especially bad in poorer populations. So now we have two conflicting stats: Poor people are food insecure while simultaneously being overweig…

These are two symptoms of the same problem, I don’t see any issue with the statistics. Plus, of course, not everyone who’s poor or hungry is obese.

If you think about it, it makes sense that food insecurity and obesity go together. If I didn’t know when I’d have food, I’d try to overeat when I could, like many wild animals do before winter. And most of our cheap food is low quality and very high in fat and carbs (esp. sugars).

The problem that’s bigger than both obesity and hunger is poverty, and poverty causes both of those things.

See this paper for a longer explanation: “Food insecurity as a risk factor for obesity: A review” https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9549066/

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