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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#321

Post by crossroadsguy »

duffyjp wrote: post #201

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

> it's iMessage that has me chained

No Apple hardware or software/service (when it comes to Apple software/services they deserve a LOL) has me chained.

It's just how disgusting Google has kept Android for anyone who wants privacy, safety (both usage and data safety in case of loss etc), and reliable updates that people stay in Apple ecosystem even though software/services wise technically they are miles ahead.

If someone ever even proceeds to tell me that "something in apple's stable is technically comparable/better than Google's.." I might rudely ask them to get their head examined.

I just can't reconcile with the fact that Google would track me every milisecond and then use my data for ads and I can't do anything about it. The good news is very soon Apple will start doing the same, if they have not, because they are already an ad company now.

As far as ditching iMessage is concerned - the last time I ditched WhatsApp in my country, I ditched it and after I didn't feel a thing. And WhatsApp in my country is not only instant messaging - it's literal-bllody-ly everything. Everything!

PS. Signal should launch a "Import from iMessage and WhatsApp" :D (Oh, but then how would they prioritise crypto ;-))

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#322

Post by hu3 »

radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #226
kelthuzad wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial suspicion of you being a bad faith actor who is just regurgitating "Apple PR talk" has been proven true. 1) Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44813704 you regurgitate the classic Apple propaganda of "web apps are akshually not 'real' apps" - what makes apps 'real' for Apple propagandists is clearly when everybody is forced to pay Apple 30% tax. 2) The hallmark of the irrational Apple shill is also…

You've got some serious biases sending you some weird places in evaluating my posts. > 1) Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44813704 you regurgitate the classic Apple propaganda of "web apps are akshually not 'real' apps" - what makes apps 'real' for Apple propagandists is clearly when everybody is forced to pay Apple 30% tax. Yeah, that's my opinion on every platform, including back when I used Android. It's…

Accounts like these have me wondering if Apple marketing has some guerrilla marketing branch to spam the internet.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#323

Post by TheDong »

bkmq wrote: post #259
two-sandwich wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FF with uBO was the killer app that kept me on android. If Apple let me run that, I'd have bought into it years ago. Have you considered messages.google.com? I think you need to use Google's messages app (not the Samsung messager or equivalent) but it does as you describe and supports RCS.

Kagi made a safari based w är my browser that can use both FF and chrome addons on iOS. I use full uBO and I still don’t care about cookies.

Can i share my history and bonus with my desktop, ie linux?

Oh, it's closed source ios/macos only? Yeah, no thanks.

I also kinda doubt it's compatible with most firefox addons, addons can and do rely on details of firefox that ios does not provide the ability to emulate.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#324

Post by charcircuit »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #320
charcircuit wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not take the same order of engineers for only integration. That is false as you can see by the existing integration teams for forks that exist. And I'm sure Mozilla is able to find talent capable of working on web engines.

There are no Blink forks with appreciably large differences yet, though. In the aftermath of Google turning “evil” and working against the better interests of the web in multiple ways, you’re looking at a fork with divergences as large or larger than those that prompted Google to fork Blink from WebKit, making integration of patches from mainline Blink a full time non-trivial job. Personally I’d rather see Mozilla wo…

The software is very modular. I don't see what could make it so hard to remove "evil" modules.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#325

Post by skybrian »

NotPractical wrote: post #238
skybrian wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re thinking like an end user and not like someone who has provide tech support for others. One of the best things I did to make my life easier was getting mom a Chromebook.

You can root a Chromebook if you choose to accept the risks involved. This is officially supported.

Sure, it's a nice feature, but I probably wouldn't. Maybe I'd put a sticker on it saying "my other computer is a Raspberry Pi Pico."

It's not necessary to root every device you own. You can use one to do your banking and web browsing and have entirely separate devices for hacking.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#326

Post by simondotau »

sunaookami wrote: post #73
ajaimk wrote: post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

If Safari can only survive because Apple has a monopoly on browsers on iOS then it's a shit browser.

The only reason why Safari is "shit" is because web developers are too lazy to develop for the web and instead develop for Chrome. The point of the web is that it's an open standard. Expecting everyone to use the bleeding edge version of the most aggressively feature-laden browser isn't just unreasonable, it's counter to the spirit of the platform.

Microsoft got into trouble for pushing Netscape users over to Internet Explorer, but what they did isn't half as evil as the dark patterns Google is using to get Chrome and other Google apps onto the few devices left which don't have them.

It's IE6 all over again. But worse.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#327

Post by ivanmontillam »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #86
ivanmontillam wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue with Chromium is not that it's not that it benefits Google. The main issue is that it's so mainstream, it strongarms standardization bodies making them ineffective. Chromium is so mainstream that developers think developing for other browsers is irrelevant, even putting notices of deprecation for Safari and Firefox. W3C is on the brink of irrelevancy, because if it works on Chromium, why bother with th…

How has chrome abused there'd position? Generally from what I've seen most of their standards are sane and improve the web. I was told they were breaking adblockers, using ublock lite which complies with the changes I don't notice a difference. And even this change I could have switched browsers it didn't break the web. There's some pwa features only they support, and that's a feature I think could actually benefit m…

Chromium is in such position that their implementation of new elements and APIs set the de-facto standard for the Web and Safari and Firefox have to follow suit.

This overpowers the governing body (W3C), where they have to accept it and pretend they remain relevant.

A bit of history: When Internet Explorer was the dominant browser of the Internet, other browsers existed and their usage was in healthy proportion, among each other. People could choose whatever browser they wanted and be sure its browser engine was independent.

When Chromium/Chrome came in 2008, it changed the game to what we have today: 85% Chromium-based browsers, 8%-10% Safari/WebKit and 2%-3% Gecko-based browsers (Firefox)

Whatever Chromium does, others have to follow suit. The bulk of the userbase is there (unfortunately). No real choice exists for a governing body to effectively apply standards.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#328

Post by spartanatreyu »

simondotau wrote: post #326
sunaookami wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Safari can only survive because Apple has a monopoly on browsers on iOS then it's a shit browser.

The only reason why Safari is "shit" is because web developers are too lazy to develop for the web and instead develop for Chrome. The point of the web is that it's an open standard. Expecting everyone to use the bleeding edge version of the most aggressively feature-laden browser isn't just unreasonable, it's counter to the spirit of the platform. Microsoft got into trouble for pushing Netscape users over to Interne…

> The only reason why Safari is "shit" is because web developers are too lazy to develop for the web and instead develop for Chrome.

Safari is only available on Apple devices, Chrome is available everywhere. Let's not pretend that laziness is the only reason why Chrome has the largest marketshare.

> The point of the web is that it's an open standard. Expecting everyone to use the bleeding edge version of the most aggressively feature-laden browser isn't just unreasonable, it's counter to the spirit of the platform.

I don't expect Safari to be the bleeding edge. I just expect the features to work. Lets take for example: IndexedDB

- IndexedDB was first brought up in two propsals in 2009/2010 - IndexedDB was available for pubilc testing in early 2012 by Firefox and Chrome and was released for both browsers unprefixed in late 2012. - IndexedDB was "released" for Safari in late 2014. However:

1. The released version was so bad and buggy that it basically didn't work at all.

2. It essentially broke all the websites/web-apps that were using it, and there was no easy alternative to use. The affected websites/webapps had to essentially be rearchitected and remade or just plain shut down.

3. Apple had no interest in fixing it which essentially poisoned the feature for all developers. It was so egregious it was actually used in the lawsuits against Apple their monopolistic app store practices, which eventually led to the EU to create their new sweeping anti-trust regulation changes for app stores and browsers.

- IndexedDB didn't have a working release on Safari until mid-2016 and didn't have the industry standard "last two major version" support until late 2017.

That means we had developers affected by IndexedDB's poisoning for about 5 years.

---

So by my earlier request of "I don't expect Safari to be the bleeding edge. I just expect the features to work.", Safari completely and utterly shit the bed. They shit the bed so bad it helped lead the EU to create new anti-trust regulations.

And that was just Apple trying to meet a standard feature.

And if you thought the IndexedDB debacle was over, they broke it again. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27509206

---

Let's not even get into Safari breaking other features. I'd rather not type all this out: https://webventures.rejh.nl/blog/2024/history-of-safari-show...

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#329

Post by cozzyd »

two-sandwich wrote: post #219
duffyjp wrote: post #201

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

FF with uBO was the killer app that kept me on android. If Apple let me run that, I'd have bought into it years ago. Have you considered messages.google.com? I think you need to use Google's messages app (not the Samsung messager or equivalent) but it does as you describe and supports RCS.

or kdeconnect/gsconnect?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#330

Post by rpdillon »

Alupis wrote: post #262
bigyabai wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand by what I said. Apple used to be the leading smartphone manufacturer in China, now they aren't even in the top 5. Sometimes things change, and I doubt China's in shambles because Airdrop isn't ubiquitous. I see no reason why Japan would be different. The notion that American tech companies are invincible is really only a view held by Americans. The overwhelming majority of people I speak to internationally do…

Maybe not brand loyalty... but people, universally, want the best product available. Today, for a large portion of the world, that is perceived to be the iPhone. The iPhone being banned in Japan because of some policy dispute with the government is going to go over like a bag of wet cement. People may not care that it's "Apple", but they do care the "Best" is being banned for reasons the population doesn't care about…

> but people, universally, want the best product available

I fear you've been overly influenced by Apple's marketing. They are in no way the best product, but they certainly have the best advertisements!

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