Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#201

Post by duffyjp » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:16 PM UTC

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get.

I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore.

I'm this close to swapping to the Android as my primary device-- it's iMessage that has me chained. It's just too dang nice to respond to chats from my Mac during work so I don't need to pick up my phone.

Everything else is better on the Android. Don't get me started about the iOS keyboard or Siri.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#202

Post by prmph » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:16 PM UTC

HHad3 wrote: post #35

I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall. BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing. * Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage…

The browser itself is some kind of app store, and we run app from it all the time without Apple's review. Given this, I'm not sure why Apple and its fanboys make so much of this supposed security of the AppStore

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#203

Post by resource_waste » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:17 PM UTC

ygritte wrote: post #19

Looks like Japan learned from the malicious compliance shenanigans Apple is pulling with the EU. I hope Apple gets served some substantial fines that really hurt when they try to pull the same shit there. And I say, "when", not "if".

But I like the walled prison where I can't screw up and make choices for myself. I appreciate that Apple makes it so I can't accidentally give my coordinates and have some Monarch track me and murder me or leak my noods.

+4500 upvoots

(I always thought it was suspicious that the anti-apple headline had +30k upvoots on reddit, but the top comment was pro-apple with significantly less. Its almost like they paid an external marketing team/troll farm to do reputation management)

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#204

Post by sneak » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:17 PM UTC

ACCount36 wrote: post #46

KingOfCoders wrote: post #30

I found the power of "It can be done" amazing. One country does it, everyone else thinks "It can be done, we don't want to be left behind" after 20 years of this being impossible.

[flagged]

I’d have gone with nationwide 24/7 facial recognition surveillance of all modes of travel and transport, something the UK and China have pioneered, and is now being rolled out as fast as possible across every other superpower, the US at the forefront.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#205

Post by GeoAtreides » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:17 PM UTC

input_sh wrote: post #135

nuker wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Facebook will grant its app all permission entitlements, and will direct all users to opt-out lockdown for the app to work.

Are they doing that on Android right now?

OP, nuker, please answer, i'm genuinely curious what you think about this

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#206

Post by sneak » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

devinprater wrote: post #62

kjfaejgoaeijhei wrote: post #4

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

Lol Apple is too prideful to do that.

Personifying corporations of thousands (or nations of millions) as if they had driving emotions such as a single person would have is almost always a grave logical error.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#207

Post by resource_waste » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

yupyupyups wrote: post #48

HHad3 wrote: post #35

I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall. BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing. * Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage…

>and as we all know that'll be the end of the world. I'll enjoy seeing all the accounts on MacRumors clawing their eyes out when that happens. It would be naive to think that Apple isn't funding sites and narratives on the internet to serve their economic interests. One of the most outlandish one being that freedom to use your phone however you want would necessarily compromise security and privacy for everyone. It's…

I remember when HN would literally shadowban you for suggesting they do this.

Now with 'troll farms'/'reputation management' being so ubiquitous, we'd call Apple irresponsible to not be doing this.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#208

Post by didacusc » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:20 PM UTC

yupyupyups wrote: post #48

HHad3 wrote: post #35

I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall. BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing. * Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage…

>and as we all know that'll be the end of the world. I'll enjoy seeing all the accounts on MacRumors clawing their eyes out when that happens. It would be naive to think that Apple isn't funding sites and narratives on the internet to serve their economic interests. One of the most outlandish one being that freedom to use your phone however you want would necessarily compromise security and privacy for everyone. It's…

On iOS, I can trust that pretty much everyone in my family won't download something silly that then creates a security hole in their devices. Not sure how you could guarantee that if you could load code post-review. What would be the point of the review, then? Wouldn't the App Store be littered with trojan horses in waiting?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#209

Post by sneak » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:20 PM UTC

mathiaspoint wrote: post #193

sneak wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also shifts a tremendous amount of the burden for preventing system-level malware onto the app sandbox, which today is only one component of a multi-layered defense-in-depth system of notarization, entitlements, app review, etc. To be clear I support letting people run whatever apps they want, but let’s not pretend that this won’t make the median iPhone more prone to have a malware infection (like Android). Ther…

Apple doesn't instrument apps when they review them. That burden is already there, they've just convinced you otherwise.

I think it depends on the app and the entitlements. I would assume apps that request entitlements for system-level VPN apis are scrutinized more than calculators.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#210

Post by kelthuzad » Wed, Aug 06, 2025, 4:21 PM UTC

radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #183

kelthuzad wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Your whole narrative is just Apple PR talk in disguise. If Safari were even remotely close to being "the best mainstream browser" as you claimed, it would manifest itself in Safari capturing a dominant market share i.e. people would naturally gravitate towards Safari without Apple forcing it upon users. Apple would also invest much more into Web technology, but they don't have any interest in doing that…

Of course there's conflict of interest. I'd prefer we address all the things their actions motivated by that conflict of interest are shielding me from before we smack them down, though. After that, yeah, I'll take up a pitchfork, too. For now, they're my AnCap-approved optional private enforcement regime against a bunch of the antisocial and market-capturing behavior of the rest of tech, since public regulators are…

My initial suspicion of you being a bad faith actor who is just regurgitating "Apple PR talk" has been proven true.

1) Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44813704 you regurgitate the classic Apple propaganda of "web apps are akshually not 'real' apps" - what makes apps 'real' for Apple propagandists is clearly when everybody is forced to pay Apple 30% tax.

2) The hallmark of the irrational Apple shill is also how increasingly bizarre and contradictory the apologia in defense of the trillion dollar company's anti-competitive business practices becomes, as you've just proven: "private enforcement regime against a bunch of the antisocial and market-capturing behavior of the rest of tech" - what kind of absurd logic is that?

Apple should be allowed to break the law according to you, so they can pretend to oppose something they are also guilty of themselves!? Then you disingenuously claim that "I'd much prefer real, very aggressive enforcement of meaningful consumer protection, standards mandates, and trust-busting across the board, but this is the only option I've got", but that's clearly not the "only option you've got" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2... ) since you are literally opposing the other option by fighting regulators through spreading of disingenuous talking points in defense of Apple's unlawful business practices.