Live data from Hacker News

Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

31–40 of 356 posts

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#31
post #24

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

The only real chrome alternative is Gecko.

if you hate privacy, want more ai in your browser asap and don't care about battery life and performance, yeah, sure!

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#32
post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

AFAIK the main reason is that only the EU+UK cared about these rules and their market share is too small for companies like Google or Mozilla to invest into. Because of the way the App Store works, browser engines segregated by region need to be two different apps. That means maintaining two source trees (EU+UK+JP vs worldwide) and two releases with two reviews. I expect niche browsers to have a go at porting to iOS…

[deleted]

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#33

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

If I was worried about a chrome monoculture I would want Safari to face competition. Apple has more then enough resources to invest in it.

if chrome ever ends up with a majority browser share on ios/ipados, apple won't have any way to keep up. at this point, google already almost 100% controls web standards, and they can push new features (no matter how privacy-hostile or overreaching) without even allowing apple the chance to keep up. at that point, the incentives for apple to keep developing safari would slowly dwindle away.

(oh, and gecko is a joke, especially on mobile - no need to even bring it up)

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#35
I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall.

BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing.

* Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage already does this, third-party messengers are single-process and cannot.

* Applications could isolate unstable components for better user experience and crash recovery.

* Emulators, e.g. for retro systems, would benefit from speedy emulation.

* WASM would become useful in iOS.

* Browser could use XPC without special-purpose API wrappers such as BrowserEngineKit.

But alas, all of this would make it easier to load code that runs at native speed into an iOS app after a store review happened, and as we all know that'll be the end of the world.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#36
* in Japan. Apple has made it clear that they are willing and able to only allow consumer choice if they are in the jurisdiction where they are required to. I live in Norway, so I’m not able to sideload apps, because Norway, despite usually being lumped in with “the EU” is not actually part of the EU, and thus not covered by the EU ruling.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#37

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

Apple's Safari is unfortunately not keeping away the Web from being a Chrome monoculture.

Apple is the only thing keeping web standards in place. Many vendors we work with only support Chrome, including Chrome... on iOS. Which means because on iOS that's just Safari, the website has to meet web standards. So we know thanks to Apple, it'll work on Firefox!

Soon as this happens, Chrome is the web. The OWA knows this, it's their goal, it's an astroturf outfit.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#39

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

You underestimate the power of the default setting

the default windows browser has somewhere between a 5% and 13% market share. i think you're the one overestimating the power of defaults here.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was worried about a chrome monoculture I would want Safari to face competition. Apple has more then enough resources to invest in it.

if chrome ever ends up with a majority browser share on ios/ipados, apple won't have any way to keep up. at this point, google already almost 100% controls web standards, and they can push new features (no matter how privacy-hostile or overreaching) without even allowing apple the chance to keep up. at that point, the incentives for apple to keep developing safari would slowly dwindle away. (oh, and gecko is a joke,…

> (oh, and gecko is a joke, especially on mobile - no need to even bring it up)

What is the issue with gecko? I am using it every day on my smartphone.

Post reply on HN