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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#181

Post by cosmic_cheese »

thewebguyd wrote: post #125
agust wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah other reasons I've heard of include the obligation to adopt iOS-specific APIs for features like scrolling and text inputs; developing a separate app for these markets and therefore loosing their existing userbase; and signing a pretty crazy contract, among other things. But the bigger the market they can reach, the bigger the reward, and so at some point it may justify investing resources to work around those ro…

> Yeah other reasons I've heard of include the obligation to adopt iOS-specific APIs for features like scrolling and text inputs TBH I'm fine with that. Applications, browsers or not, should use the operating system's components and APIs for things for a unified experience across all apps and interactions. On the desktop side of things, I hate when an application breaks convention for the OS it's deployed on. If I'm…

I’d say it’s even more important on mobile than it is on desktop. Third parties re-implementing things like the keyboard and IMEs are unlikely to do those anywhere near as well as the OS does, not to mention how custom implementations would break password manager integration, user-selected third party keyboards, etc.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#183

Post by radiofreeeuropa »

kelthuzad wrote: post #158
radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Safari is by far the best mainstream browser, because it's got the only engine that gives half a shit about battery life, and because they push back on shitty features Google wants to make "standard" so they can trash my UX and the computing ecosystem even more.

Counterpoint: Your whole narrative is just Apple PR talk in disguise. If Safari were even remotely close to being "the best mainstream browser" as you claimed, it would manifest itself in Safari capturing a dominant market share i.e. people would naturally gravitate towards Safari without Apple forcing it upon users. Apple would also invest much more into Web technology, but they don't have any interest in doing that…

Of course there's conflict of interest. I'd prefer we address all the things their actions motivated by that conflict of interest are shielding me from before we smack them down, though. After that, yeah, I'll take up a pitchfork, too.

For now, they're my AnCap-approved optional private enforcement regime against a bunch of the antisocial and market-capturing behavior of the rest of tech, since public regulators are asleep at the wheel. I'd much prefer real, very aggressive (by modern standards, if not historical) enforcement of meaningful consumer protection, standards mandates, and trust-busting across the board, but this is the only option I've got (aside from "just use less tech, and far less-usefully")

All hurting them now does is hand more control of the tech ecosystem to Google.

Meanwhile: yes they in fact have the best mainstream browser, and it's not even close.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#185

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

namibj wrote: post #178
ygritte wrote: post #19

Looks like Japan learned from the malicious compliance shenanigans Apple is pulling with the EU. I hope Apple gets served some substantial fines that really hurt when they try to pull the same shit there. And I say, "when", not "if".

Imagine banning sale and import, wonder how long Apple stores have to be closed for Apple to give in....

Wouldn't people in Japan riot because they can't buy iPhones and be part of the tribe?

There are few things in life people like more than their iPhones.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#186

Post by skeezyboy »

HHad3 wrote: post #35

I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall. BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing. * Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage…

thank fuck i dont have to deal with that shit

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#187

Post by cosmic_cheese »

alistairSH wrote: post #164
pton_xd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is your argument that Safari is not a good browser? https://ios404.com/ Safari is missing many performance and device-related features that would allow you to create a compelling web application and bypass the App store. I tried once, you run into the most unexpected roadblocks and come to the conclusion "I have to release this as an App." Well... guess why.

About a quarter of that list is stuff I don't want a browser futzing with... volume control, autofocus, background sync (assuming this has huge battery implications), WebUSB, WebNotifications, and a few others. That said, about half the list appears to be stuff I don't care about one way or the other. At least not without spending way more time researching those CSS elements than I care to invest. And I'd be totally…

> About a quarter of that list is stuff I don't want a browser futzing with... volume control, autofocus, background sync (assuming this has huge battery implications), WebUSB, WebNotifications, and a few others.

Yeah, looks like a nice checklist of things to turn off to me…

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#188

Post by lern_too_spel »

radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #131
meibo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is not a good browser, by design, because it's in Apple's interest to cripple the Web as a platform. If they want their browser to be actually competitive instead of forcing people to use it, they should make a good browser. That is markets working as they are supposed to.

Counterpoint: Safari is by far the best mainstream browser, because it's got the only engine that gives half a shit about battery life, and because they push back on shitty features Google wants to make "standard" so they can trash my UX and the computing ecosystem even more.

Counterpoint: Safari uses more battery than Chrome while providing less functionality: https://birchtree.me/blog/everyone-says-chrome-devastates-ma...

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#189

Post by skeezyboy »

Arainach wrote: post #162
yupyupyups wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and as we all know that'll be the end of the world. I'll enjoy seeing all the accounts on MacRumors clawing their eyes out when that happens. It would be naive to think that Apple isn't funding sites and narratives on the internet to serve their economic interests. One of the most outlandish one being that freedom to use your phone however you want would necessarily compromise security and privacy for everyone. It's…

>freedom to use your phone however you want would necessarily compromise security and privacy for everyone. For a large enough definition of "everyone", it would. "Everyone" has a Meta app installed. We've seen them pull evil tricks over and over to suck up data 24/7 - most recently running a local server on Android that their websites could talk to to bypass anonymization - and the moment a crack appears in the wall…

i take it you dont use desktops or laptops then?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#190

Post by kmeisthax »

close04 wrote: post #142
nuker wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Facebook will grant its app all permission entitlements, and will direct all users to opt-out lockdown for the app to work.

Fair enough, and then your iOS should just report the list of permissions the app demanded, maybe even compare to the AppStore version, and then let people make their choice. It doesn't have to be a "one click" easy way to make mistakes. Most users won't bother to go through 3 extra steps to install the "alternative" app if they aren't missing anything in the regular one. The OS should anyway sandbox everything, and…

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