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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#91

Post by dylan604 »

TheDong wrote: post #44

> the determination is made based on the degree of likelihood that [it will prevent alternative browser engines] If you interpret that very liberally, doing a region-locked "you can release alternate browser engines but only regionlocked to japanese apple accounts" could be seen as intentionally preventing alternative browsers from existing. Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of it…

> Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of its users?

Mozilla is used to only a tiny fraction of users anyway. Why would this be any different? It could also be a chance to release a version for QA by the users before the rest of the market opens up.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#92

Post by troupo »

TheDong wrote: post #44

> the determination is made based on the degree of likelihood that [it will prevent alternative browser engines] If you interpret that very liberally, doing a region-locked "you can release alternate browser engines but only regionlocked to japanese apple accounts" could be seen as intentionally preventing alternative browsers from existing. Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of it…

> oing a region-locked "you can release alternate browser engines but only regionlocked to japanese apple accounts" could be seen as intentionally preventing alternative browsers from existing.

That's one of the things Apple has been doing with EU

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#93

Post by dylan604 »

shmerl wrote: post #81
ajaimk wrote: post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

You'd be able to use proper Firefox there. And it is a good thing, it weakens Apple's malicious control over Web standards (sabotage of using SPIR-V for WebGPU is Apple's fault).

You've missed the point. Once the restriction on which browsers can be used is lifted, people won't be switching to Firefox in vast numbers. They will be switching to Chrome. Just because someone is able to use Firefox does not mean they will use Firefox.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#94

Post by dylan604 »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #89
sunaookami wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Safari can only survive because Apple has a monopoly on browsers on iOS then it's a shit browser.

Firefox is overall a fine browser. Still has 2% marketshare. There's also the fact that websites themselves need to be mindful of multiple browser engines existing because of Safari. Once users are able to install Chrome on iPhones, developers will just abandon every other engine wholesale.

Being mindful of alternate browsers means nothing. If that were true, more people would not be using Chrome on Android or on desktop.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#95

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

dylan604 wrote: post #94
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is overall a fine browser. Still has 2% marketshare. There's also the fact that websites themselves need to be mindful of multiple browser engines existing because of Safari. Once users are able to install Chrome on iPhones, developers will just abandon every other engine wholesale.

Being mindful of alternate browsers means nothing. If that were true, more people would not be using Chrome on Android or on desktop.

I have no idea what you're trying to say

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#96

Post by troupo »

ajaimk wrote: post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

Yup. That's the downside of it. I am personally quite torn on the issue.

On the one hand Apple must be made to open up iOS more.

On the other hand it just leads to Chrome monopoly.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#97

Post by troupo »

charcircuit wrote: post #13
agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

I wonder if it would make more sense and be easier for Firefox to switch to Blink, working together with Google making an alternate browser engine for iOS.

> to switch to Blink, working together with Google making an alternate browser engine for iOS.

How is switching to Blink, a Google-controlled engine, supposed to help creating an "alternative engine"?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#98

Post by tempodox »

dylan604 wrote: post #91
TheDong wrote: post #44

> the determination is made based on the degree of likelihood that [it will prevent alternative browser engines] If you interpret that very liberally, doing a region-locked "you can release alternate browser engines but only regionlocked to japanese apple accounts" could be seen as intentionally preventing alternative browsers from existing. Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of it…

> Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of its users? Mozilla is used to only a tiny fraction of users anyway. Why would this be any different? It could also be a chance to release a version for QA by the users before the rest of the market opens up.

But this would be a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#99

Post by troupo »

Dah00n wrote: post #51
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is the only thing keeping web standards in place. Many vendors we work with only support Chrome, including Chrome... on iOS. Which means because on iOS that's just Safari, the website has to meet web standards. So we know thanks to Apple, it'll work on Firefox! Soon as this happens, Chrome is the web. The OWA knows this, it's their goal, it's an astroturf outfit.

What? Safari is the IE of today. It is the browser that holds the web back the most.

Chrome-only non-standards are not "web progress". And refusing to implement those non-standards doesn't hold back the web.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#100

Post by nuker »

yupyupyups wrote: post #48
HHad3 wrote: post #35

I would welcome if this global legislative push would end up in a more open app ecosystem for iOS overall. BrowserEngineKit is a thin wrapper over XPC and iOS' extension system. The system would be so much better to develop for if XPC was an open API, and JIT for isolated sub-processes was permitted without Apple's blessing. * Messengers could have separate sub-processes for preprocessing untrusted inputs -- iMessage…

>and as we all know that'll be the end of the world. I'll enjoy seeing all the accounts on MacRumors clawing their eyes out when that happens. It would be naive to think that Apple isn't funding sites and narratives on the internet to serve their economic interests. One of the most outlandish one being that freedom to use your phone however you want would necessarily compromise security and privacy for everyone. It's…

> ... freedom to use your phone however you want

I want to use my phone locked down hard and apps reviewed by Apple. I sleep better with things as they are. I suspect 99% of normal users are in the same boat.

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