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Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

abcactionnews.com

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Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#21

Post by russdill »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #4
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #3

After 3 decades living in WestCentral FL counties, I learned something about local police departments. You can measure the ethics of the police chief (and to a lesser degree, county commissioners), by whether they embrace or refuse revenue-generating traffic cameras. a school speed zone camera caught him going 38 mph when he thought the speed limit was 40mph because the school speed zone sign wasn’t flashing when he…

Real wtf is the 40mph is OK in a place kids are (e.g. some go early or stay late or weekend sports) generally around but only drive slow at certain times.

The road that runs next to my local elementary is 50mph, 25mph when children present.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#22

Post by t-writescode »

I've been reading the law, linked in the news site; and, the document says, among many other things, in 316.0776(3)(a),

(emphasis mine)

  "the county or municipality MUST NOTIFY the public that a speed detection system may be in use BY POSTING SIGNAGE
  indicating photographic or video enforcement of the school zone speed limits. Such signage SHALL CLEARLY DESIGNATE
  THE TIME PERIOD DURING WHICH THE SCHOOL ZONE SPEED LIMITS ARE ENFORCED using a speed detection system"
So it looks like the flashing light is a backup and enhancer and that the more important field is the current time of day.

Under the assumption that the time range text is easily visible, not covered in trees, not tiny, able to be seen by a person driving at the regularly posted speed from a distance that they can safely and reasonably slow down, etc, then it doesn't seem terrible.

THAT SAID, they should absolutely *FIX* the blinking lights.

In part of the article, it is declared that the traffic cameras caught 500,000 violations this school year ("since fall") across Florida, which is ... concerningly high. That's several thousand per day. Across all Florida, but still. Only about 3000 people protested across that; and, assuming all protests were genuine, that's less than a 1% broken light rate, which means broken lights are probably pretty quickly fixed.

I hope the signage either already has prominent time ranges and/or will have prominent time ranges in the near future. My thoughts on this are certainly complicated.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#23

Post by hedora »

akk0 wrote: post #17
hedora wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen modern US schools? They're basically setup like prison yards because of all the school shootings. There's no way the kids are going to run into the street without first going through a parking lot (and, often, a line of bollards). On the bright side, there's zero reason to slow cars down when kids aren't being actively picked up or dropped off. (Not that there was a reason to slow the cars down during o…

Your comment seems to imply that parking lots around schools are somehow strategically positioned to prevent school shootings? I'm not from the US but I'm intrigued by how that would work.

They retrofitted fences in the last decade or so. The only break in the fence is usually near the administration office / pickup / dropoff zone, which is generally next to the parking lot.

It doesn't actually prevent school shootings. There were 330 in the US last year; 349 in 2023. They're also adding cameras, weapons detection systems and "resources to address students’ emotional and mental well-being"

https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-shootings-2024-near-reco...

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#24

Post by bruceallmighty »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #5
josephcsible wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Australia makes it clear, signs have the times on. Yes you need a watch to check but if in doubt just go slow.

Kind of. They have times + "SCHOOL DAYS" - When are school days you may ask? Well, it's any day the school is in session (excluding holidays) and not every adult will know when school is in session or not.

Many will also have flashing lights on them. However, the flashing lights do not override the time nor "SCHOOL DAYS".

If the lights are flashing out-of-hours you can disregard the sign, but if the lights are NOT flashing and it IS the time+day then you need to respect the sign.

ie. The flashing lights are irrelevant, and are only to catch attention.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#25

Post by magicalhippo »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #5
josephcsible wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Australia makes it clear, signs have the times on. Yes you need a watch to check but if in doubt just go slow.

Norway makes it easy. There's no time modification on the speed signs. It's slow all day err day near schools.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#26

Post by t-writescode »

magicalhippo wrote: post #25
bravesoul2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia makes it clear, signs have the times on. Yes you need a watch to check but if in doubt just go slow.

Norway makes it easy. There's no time modification on the speed signs. It's slow all day err day near schools.

In a world where it is reasonable to have the road always be a slower speed for pedestrian, especially school, traffic this is by far the best option, imo.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#27

Post by m463 »

yahway wrote: post #19
hatthew wrote: post #10

> the signage requirements for school speed zones only require signs to designate when the school zone is in effect. So even if a school speed zone sign states that drivers must slow down “when [the light is] flashing,” that light doesn’t have to actually be flashing for a driver to get cited. I'm a little confused. If the light isn't flashing, doesn't that mean that the school zone isn't in effect? I don't understan…

This is the very thing that happened to me. I didn't pay it, and refuse to pay it (The infraction occurred during COVID lockdowns) and my credit got docked for maybe one kr two points in the 850's. Fuck them. The day they impose it on my street we can talk.

In california, this kind of stuff gets forcibly paid by you. I think they even go further and other unrelated california courts can prevent your driver's license or registration to be blocked. They can also intercept a tax refund, etc.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#28

Post by m463 »

You should also read up on towing laws. It is up there with civil forfeiture.

I think the problem with many unjust laws is that the people who get trapped in them either have very little power, or because of the subject society sort of says guilty through involvement.

Less wealthy people whose cars are towed usually have trouble raising the funds, or even getting a ride to the impound lot. Any delay is an almost exponential multiplier to fines and maybe even seizure of the vehicle.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#29

Post by xboxnolifes »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #8
t-writescode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools next to a stroad really aren't that unheard of in the United States.

Yes so slow em down.

You would still be suddenly dropping a 40mph road to 20mph for a short stretch. These schools are frequently built on major roads.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#30

Post by bravesoul2 »

hedora wrote: post #13
bravesoul2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes so slow em down.

Have you seen modern US schools? They're basically setup like prison yards because of all the school shootings. There's no way the kids are going to run into the street without first going through a parking lot (and, often, a line of bollards). On the bright side, there's zero reason to slow cars down when kids aren't being actively picked up or dropped off. (Not that there was a reason to slow the cars down during o…

I am haven't seen a US school. What about walking? I'm guessing most people use the school bus or get driven then?
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