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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#361

Post by HPsquared »

gchamonlive wrote: post #313
djeastm wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't think of anything you'd want to do with your daytime hours other than work?

Have you tried doing anything other than work that isn't consuming something? I have, from drawing to music, from writing novels to doing programming projects on my free time. It's not very fun, you aren't good at most of it and it's very frustrating. It's also very rewarding being able to overcome limitations and building up skills. But it's first and foremost very demanding. You can't expect someone that just got r…

That's still work, it's just self-directed and not for selling to the general market. Same as how exercising is work.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#362

Post by shawabawa3 »

exe34 wrote: post #338
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

> Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. In the UK, most councils have made parks alcohol-free zones. Also, the parks are only nice about 3 months a year. The rest of the time it's damp and miserable.

> In the UK, most councils have made parks alcohol-free zones

Uh, citation needed?

Some small parks, cemeteries, kids playgrounds maybe

Every large park in London at least is full of people drinking

There's even a kids playground next to a pub in London fields where I often go drinking with other parents while the kids play

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#363

Post by Aurornis »

dmoy wrote: post #347
Aurornis wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then go for a walk in the closest park instead of a hike an hour away. Play volleyball on the free net at the local park instead of signing up for pickleball and buying great. The people who want to avoid activities and socialization will always pick the more expensive activities so they can dismiss them. Yet go into the real world and people have no problem finding ways to socialize and have fun without spending muc…

> Play volleyball on the free net at the local park instead of signing up for pickleball and buying great. Coincidentally, my neighborhood just put up its first volleyball net a week or so back. It was stolen within two days lol

That’s unfortunate. Generally the poles are metal and permanent. It’s common for people to bring their own net when they bring their own ball. A basic net is cheap

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#364

Post by Nathanba »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #349
Nathanba wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece of information as ammunition against you, ironically sort of similar to the criticism always levied against online platforms who track you and what you say. AI robots are going to easily replace real humans because compared to most real humans the AI is already…

Real humans are real. Their flaws are real. Your emotions around them are real and so are the benefits to socialising. Accepting people as the flawed actors they are is a part of becoming a mature adult.

AI is also real to me. My emotions around AI are also real, I deeply appreciate when the AI helps me figure something out or talks to me. I think this type of response will get rarer as AI develops further and people realize that there is now competition and these sentimental reasons will have much less weight. I also have no idea what you mean by "benefits to socializing", I don't see much of any benefit compared to socializing with an AI. Also saying things like "accepting flaws is maturity" is the sort of things that you say when you have no alternative. Once people realize that they can indeed pick an AI friend as their personal best friend suddenly you don't have to put up with all these human flaws anymore.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#365

Post by Hoasi »

vincnetas wrote: post #333
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

When mall is called a public space... Public space situation is really sad.

> When mall is called a public space... Public space situation is really sad.

Absolutely, but still, that is a reality in many cities. They are places where "going to the mall" is the main form of entertainment left.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#366

Post by zhivota »

Aurornis wrote: post #334
abeppu wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basically saying that people who aren't social mistakenly view the rest of the world as not social because of their specific experience, but doesn't that effect also cut the other way? You're seeing people being social because you're going to those situations. But there are time use surveys etc which provide a quantitative view of a lot of people. Because they're voluntary, they can't be a perfect representati…

> You're seeing people being social because you're going to those situations. No, I’m saying the same social activities are more popular now than they were 10-20 years ago. I’ve been doing some of the same activities and going on some of the same hikes, bikes, runs, trails, and parks on and off for two decades. The popularity of these activities has exploded. Even previously hidden trails and hikes are now very busy…

What you're missing is that the activities you're doing were not the activities people were largely doing 10-20 years ago to be social. Going to bars was probably at least 100x more popular than hiking, so even if you see a 10x growth in hiking, if going to bars goes down even 10%, it dwarfs hiking's contribution to overall social activity of the population.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#367

Post by twoodfin »

dismalaf wrote: post #211
twoodfin wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real per capita disposable income has been on a steady upward trend for decades: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A229RX0 Unless socialization activities like bars or athletics are major outliers, it seems likely that in income-relative terms, the average American has much cheaper access to social activities. (Unrelated, but if you squint at that chart you can see why Trump got elected, almost & then actually reele…

That graph starts 70 years after the aforementioned coal miner scenario... And yes, in the 1800s housing was comparatively cheap because land was close to free and you built your own home. Same goes for booze and venues to drink it because you made your own and there was zero regulation. Today everyone is being choked by the relatively high cost of real estate (inflation looks ok because we have cheap durable goods l…

When do you think that trend reversed and per capita disposable income was declining prior to the current rise?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#368

Post by jjulius »

foobarian wrote: post #314
jjulius wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A dinner starts at $50/person. I went to dinner with a friend last night and my meal was $22. I go to lunch with coworkers and often only spend ~$15-ish. One also doesn't need to do activities that cost money in order to hang out with people one knows. Get together and play board games or cards. I hung out with my friends last weekend - we brought our records over and DJ'd, someone brought some frozen burgers, I su…

> my meal was $22 Including tax and tip?

Yup! We went walking through a nearby nature preserve, then went to a fast-casual poke spot. $16 for a large bowl (damn tasty, too!) and a can of green tea, plus 10% tip. It's Oregon, so no tax.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#369

Post by bapak »

socalgal2 wrote: post #353
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

This doesn't match my experience. In fact one thing I noticed living in Japan is how much more willing people are to spend money to meet up. Lots of events costs 3000-7000 yen. Clubs and bar have a cover charge. People will organize parties where they rent a bar and tell their friends it's 4000 yen each (about $27 currently but was closer to $40) in the past. They'll even have house parties and tell everyone to pitch…

> they still go out

It's vastly cheaper to go out in Japan, even if there are more expensive options. Not many cheap hangout options in a lot of places.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#370

Post by ozgrakkurt »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #124
miraks wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you gave me a model released two years ago and today and let me do some programming with both, I would have no problems telling you which one was released two years ago; progress on this front is very noticeable. But if you let me chat with each one for an hour, I'm honestly not sure I would be able to tell the difference.

So 2 years of progress is enough to form a trend-line? Do you remember life during the time when AI at this level didn’t exist? Follow the 10 year trend-line. That’s the thing that points to the future. But either way there’s progress on both fronts. Talking to it has improved we just can’t measure it quantitatively imo.

Can’t draw any line without being aware of underlying technicality of AI, how it works? What previous research enabled LLMs? etc.
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