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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#351

Post by soulofmischief »

roncesvalles wrote: post #279
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

Drinking outdoors (let alone at a public park) is just not a thing outside Europe.

It is definitely a thing here in Louisiana. Drinking in public or while driving is a proud tradition.

Take a trip to New Orleans for the extreme end of it, but we have drive-through Daiquiri shops all over and at least half of the people I grew up with have at least one DUI and I've never thought twice about being outside with a drink in my hand, as rarely as I do drink (I do refuse to drink and drive and am constantly lecturing others about it out here)

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#352

Post by kergonath »

soulofmischief wrote: post #203
IgorPartola wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to offer an alternative explanation than AI to this. Shit is just too damn expensive. If you want to go hang out with friends it will cost you $4-8 for a cup of coffee. A dinner starts at $50/person. A trip to an amusement park is over $100 easily. The median individual income in the US currently is just over $65k/year or about $32.50/hour. That means half the workforce makes less than that. When an 8oz cock…

In my state is the federal minimum of $7.25/hr. You're looking at two hours of work for one cocktail. And my state is addicted to alcohol. The overwhelming majority of people I know in this state won't even meet up with you if there's not a beer waiting for them. People work all week and then spend half their paycheck in one night, then rinse, wash, repeat. I consider the state of affairs here to be nothing short of…

> I consider the state of affairs here to be nothing short of abject poverty.

It sounds like Dickens, to be honest. Or Zola.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#353

Post by socalgal2 »

dv_dt wrote: post #257
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

This doesn't match my experience. In fact one thing I noticed living in Japan is how much more willing people are to spend money to meet up. Lots of events costs 3000-7000 yen. Clubs and bar have a cover charge. People will organize parties where they rent a bar and tell their friends it's 4000 yen each (about $27 currently but was closer to $40) in the past. They'll even have house parties and tell everyone to pitch in 1000-2000 yen. In the states, my experience is even a $5 and people will complain.

The point being it's culture not economics. In fact Japanese generally make less money. IT salaries are in the $50k range. Minimum wage is $7.5 Yet they still go out.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#354

Post by gchamonlive »

monktastic1 wrote: post #326
gchamonlive wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you knew every FAANG in existence that would account for a very small fraction of the population. It might be true for this class, but you can't expect everyone to be a able to retire by 40. Even if everybody could, they wouldn't because they are immersed in a culture that celebrated consumerism at every instance. You can't just turn a switch and now you live self-sustainably.

My assumption here is that FAANG employees are not fundamentally different from the rest of the populace along that particular dimension (desire to inflate lifestyle). I chose them in particular to demonstrate that even when we have the choice, we can easily opt not to take it. Of course many do not have that choice. And yes, I agree with your second paragraph. "The culture" celebrates it — but that culture is not vi…

> I chose them in particular to demonstrate that even when we have the choice, we can easily opt not to take it.

I see now. But I still think it's a side effect of what society currently celebrates which is consumerism.

> but that culture is not violently enforced top-down by a handful of people twirling mustaches

That's assuming it's the only way to force a population into a specific behaviour, by force. It's actually the least effective method in my opinion. There is also the digital panopticon.

Blame and victim is just a way to give structure to the world. It's not essential. Not even in violence, in the Roman republic it was very well accepted to put women and children to the sword when pillaging a city.

And sure, all changes start in the private sphere, even if it's a more general movement in society. If people stop buying stuff, there is someone consciously or not choosing not to buy that specific thing.

I just think that it's the same with clothing. If you leave for the people to choose not to buy clothing made by slaving children that's just not going to happen if they cost a fraction of clothing made otherwise. It's also not a matter of prohibition because that goes against people's individual freedom to choose. You just have to give society enough time so that it gravitates towards willing to choose differently, meanwhile advocating for the change you want to see in your immediate community.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#355

Post by parineum »

DrillShopper wrote: post #327
roncesvalles wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking outdoors (let alone at a public park) is just not a thing outside Europe.

This is highly regional. I live in the Midwest US. The city government sponsors floating (as in they move around, not that they're in water) beer gardens across public parks in the summer, and our local Lutheran and Catholic churches will run outdoor beer gardens and barbecues as a way to enjoy the nice weather and bring in a little money. The various state fairs also sell beer, and a local outdoor, public music fest…

> This is highly regional.

Maybe openly but I don't know of a place where a cop will stop you and ask what's in your red cup.

Parent commenter is a narc.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#356

Post by marcosdumay »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252
SoftTalker wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at McDonald's in the 1980s. Started at $3.25/hr never made more than about $5/hr before I moved on. Cocktails at a bar were about the same price relative to that as they are now. We drank the cheapest swill beer they had on draft. It was about being there with your friends, not drinking some froo-froo cocktails.

My take on this: life is actually a lot harder for young people than when we were kids. There is less opportunity for upwardly mobile advancement, and social media has essentially wrecked people's brains (adults included). I complained that I think it's sad that a lot of young people don't just see "going over to friends' houses to hang out" as a primary option - it just doesn't occur to a lot of young people, but in…

> I complained that I think it's sad that a lot of young people don't just see "going over to friends' houses to hang out" as a primary option

Young people don't have space on their houses.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#358

Post by socalgal2 »

Aurornis wrote: post #250
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

I go out and do different activities that involve socialization. There are more people than ever going to the climbing gyms, meeting at the hiking trailhead, hanging out in the ski lift lines, and so on. All of the social places I’ve been going and activities I’ve been doing since a teenager are more crowded than ever, at a rate far faster than the local population growth. Many of the people doing these activities di…

> I don’t buy the claim that everything social and in-person is in decline.

I'm pretty confident this is a well measured fact.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9811250/

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#359

Post by shawabawa3 »

Den_VR wrote: post #302
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

So, who are you going to go drinking with at the park? And in reverse, you’re visiting the park and see someone there drinking. What’s your impression?

This is very cultural

In London on sunny days the park is 100% rammed with people sitting in circles on the grass drinking, from like noon to sunset

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#360

Post by spencerflem »

Nathanba wrote: post #335
egypturnash wrote: post #295

It's not going to solve loneliness. It's just going to provide a weak substitute for actual socialization. Talking with actual humans but only over the internet is not enough, I have been there and it was a terrible trap, it provided just enough to make it possible for me to avoid physical socialization, while not giving me enough to actually thrive; we need to get out and be in the same place with other people, doin…

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece of information as ammunition against you, ironically sort of similar to the criticism always levied against online platforms who track you and what you say. AI robots are going to easily replace real humans because compared to most real humans the AI is already…

This comment makes me so sad- I mean this genuinely, looking at your comment history its clear you've fallen into the far right rabbit hole, and this is what "catch you when you say something they don't like" means. No shade to you, there are hundred billion dollar campaigns waged to trap people in ideas like those that are designed to be isolating. But their goal is to push you away from friends and family and towards extremist beliefs.

I emphasize with how it must feel to seem iced out and victimised, it sounds awful! but this is not a normal position to have and most people do not believe the humans around them are fake or gaslighting

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