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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

newyorker.com

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#111

Post by al_borland »

deadbabe wrote: post #39

I think Gen Z will be a fucked up generation due to technology but we might be getting it wrong for future generations. There could be a future generation that decides for whatever reason, high technology like AI and smartphones, just isn’t cool. What can you do about people who just walk around with a dumb phone and a pocket size digital camera that takes DSLR quality photos that are way better than a smartphone? Pr…

This is already happening. I keep seeing articles and videos about Gen Z opting for dumb phones and getting into 90s or early 00s era tech.

It just needs to reach enough of a tipping point for companies to get behind it, and hopefully not be a fad that just burns out. This part is all very unlikely. The mainstream will have to get really bad.

To buy new "90s" stuff, it's not as good as what we had in the actual 90s. I watched something on new cassette players (walkman style) that companies are building. They are a lot bigger and bulkier than peak walkman, which was hardly larger than the tape. The tools and tech to make those small walkmans just doesn't exist anymore, and the market isn't large enough to invest in it.

When Apple's click wheel patent expires, I'm sure people would love to see some high quality 3rd party iPods that are easily repairable and have more modern features out of the box. There is still a community of people keeping the old ones going.

The way things are driving right now, it's going to be very hard to get a flip phone soon. My HSA plan just announced that if we don't download their app before fall they're going to lock us out of our accounts. That seems wrong in so many ways. In their FAQ there is a question about a user's phone not supporting their app, and the answer provided is to get a new phone that does. The HSA is through my employer, I can't just change, even though I'd like to. Earlier this year, before my grandma died, some company was telling my mom that my grandma needed an email address to use their service. She was 104 and months away from death, and they wanted her to get her first email account. After loudly refusing, they found away around it, but that's where we're at as a society. Can we even go back?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#112

Post by Krasnol »

WHA8m wrote: post #70
Krasnol wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pest upon humankind that this system needs to monetize everything humans want or need.

Same here: I agree. On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. We need money to pay people to make nice things, because apparently there is no critical mass that cares about the community. It's always individuals that burden it on their shoulders. And that's obviously not sufficient. Solution: money. Yeah, I hate it too.

Both hang together.

We've been educated for selfishness.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#113

Post by I-M-S »

raincole wrote: post #90
glimshe wrote: post #59

I believe that AI can't ever replace direct human contact. But I'm not so sure if a good AI can't replace superficial online-only friendships. Looking at the bulk of my online interactions (outside forums like this one), they largely end in trivia (did you know...) or low effort agreement. An AI could play that role admirably.

I think the most beneficial thing AI did so far was exposing how worthless the 'marketing copywriting' is. Then it will expose how worthless 'opinions from random people on the internet' are. Then how worthless 'parasocial relationships with streamers/influencers' are.

One should be careful not to conflate "worthless" with "things that hold no value to me personally".

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#114

Post by miraks »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #83
phendrenad2 wrote: post #42

I wouldn't worry about AI solving loneliness any time soon. AI right now feels empty, like a facade with no depth. AI will tell you what it thinks you want to hear, but it can't remember a conversation you had last week (and even if it sticks a summary of your conversations into the pre-prompt, it has no sense of importance and will probably overwrite your darkest secret with your favorite cocktail recipe if it runs…

I don’t understand how you u can’t worry about this. Like there’s a trend line of progress right? Ok so the thing isn’t effective now. But there’s a decade of upward progress and that projection line point to a future where a better AI exists. Trend-lines don’t point to an exact future just a most probable future. It is unwise to discount the most probable future.

If you gave me a model released two years ago and today and let me do some programming with both, I would have no problems telling you which one was released two years ago; progress on this front is very noticeable. But if you let me chat with each one for an hour, I'm honestly not sure I would be able to tell the difference.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#115

Post by handwarmers »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #54
handwarmers wrote: post #33

Paul Bloom (the author if this article) is pretty legendary in the psychology realm. This is not your average run of the mill writer looking to tap into the doomer vibe. He makes a pretty detailed argument about why loneliness can be a much bigger and more complex problem than its tame name suggests, and the subtle ways in which AI has the potential to exacerbate it.

[Replication crisis citation needed to be taken serious ]

yeah i get the if monkeySee(psychology) then monkeyDo(replicationCrisis); monkeyFeelSmart() algo. it's still a good article :)

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#116

Post by yomismoaqui »

jwally wrote: post #28
nathan_compton wrote: post #18

The idea that AI is going to "solve" loneliness is so insane. Even the framing of the idea is insane, in my opinion. Loneliness is not really about having someone to exchange words with, fundamentally. It is about being validated by other human beings or entities. At a most fundamental level the AI doesn't have a choice except to appear to validate you and this lack of freedom, the fact that you do not win over the A…

Super interesting point that struck a chord with me. Without the risk of rejection, the ai will come off as a sycophantic ass kissing yes-man. It might be seductive at first but will get old fast for most people, I would imagine. What would be really interesting is how much longer the relationship would last if it were formed on a social media site or forum where there is still some risk of rejection, and validation…

Who says an LLM has to be a sycophantic yes-man?

Today there are LLM roleplay models than can behave like some character with a specific personality (e.g. a tsundere). So if you want a electronic partner that sometimes puts you in your place you can have it.

And this is with the current roleplay models, sincerely I'm a little scared with what would be available in 5 years.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#117

Post by Esophagus4 »

nathan_compton wrote: post #63
BaseBaal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robots used in care homes for elderly people may help with loneliness, especially for those with no family or friends that visit.

I guess, but only if you assume elderly people are dumb enough to believe that a thing with no free will paying attention to them means something other than "no actual human wants to pay attention to me." I guess some elderly people have cognitive decline and might buy this, but I respect elderly people enough not to bet on it. Fundamentally, in my opinion, you cannot alleviate a human's need for the regard of other…

I don't think it's that the elderly are "dumb enough" to believe that their robot companion is human... it's that there may be some benefit of even that artificial simulation of companionship compared with having none at all.

I'm sure they know they're not talking to a human, but maybe, even on a tiny subconscious level, if they get even a fraction of that companionship in a simulated way, it is presumably better than the alternative.

Recounting memories from your youth with a robot is not as enjoyable as sharing them with real friends, but maybe it's slightly more engaging than being stuck in a nursing home bed all day by yourself watching TV.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#118

Post by deafpolygon »

mr_toad wrote: post #66
xandrius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loneliness is not mere solitude. Loneliness is not being happy with being alone, solitude is the state of being alone. I couldn't find a word for specifically being happy about it. So, loneliness is intrinsically negative, otherwise one wouldn't feel that way.

> I couldn't find a word for specifically being happy about it. The German word waldeinsamkeit roughly translates as the feeling of peace from being alone in the wilderness.

literally translated as "woodland solitude"

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#119

Post by wizzwizz4 »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #83
phendrenad2 wrote: post #42

I wouldn't worry about AI solving loneliness any time soon. AI right now feels empty, like a facade with no depth. AI will tell you what it thinks you want to hear, but it can't remember a conversation you had last week (and even if it sticks a summary of your conversations into the pre-prompt, it has no sense of importance and will probably overwrite your darkest secret with your favorite cocktail recipe if it runs…

I don’t understand how you u can’t worry about this. Like there’s a trend line of progress right? Ok so the thing isn’t effective now. But there’s a decade of upward progress and that projection line point to a future where a better AI exists. Trend-lines don’t point to an exact future just a most probable future. It is unwise to discount the most probable future.

But the current systems are about as good as they'll get: we can make them a bit better in fields where we can cheaply generate synthetic data, but human communication is not one of them. (And even where you can generate synthetic data, your efforts would usually be better spent assembling a purpose-built system.) Sure, I probably could make something more effective, using non-LLM technologies (given a large enough budget), but… why would I, or anyone else, do that when it'd be obviously harmful, with no benefit?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#120

Post by Swizec »

anovikov wrote: post #108
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

[flagged]

> For years, i tried to lose weight with gym and dieting. I failed, and now i know i probably never had a chance to, it was a scam all along.

> lost all weight i wanted with Wegovy

It’s not a scam. The trick is that you probably weren’t dieting aggressively enough before Wegovy. All diets and GLP inhibitors work on the same principle: Caloric restriction.

It is simply impossible to stay fat without eating enough calories. But that’s really really hard to do without help. I have friends and family on GLP and they regularly eat less than 800 calories per day. You can’t do that on your own, the willpower it would take is hard to imagine.

Conversely when I’m marathon training it’s almost impossible to eat enough calories to avoid losing weight. Eating itself becomes a huge chore. Run 10mi/day and I promise you’ll lose weight the old fashioned way.

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