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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

newyorker.com

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#61

Post by Krasnol »

seydor wrote: post #36
Havoc wrote: post #31

Even though I'm arguable among the target audience here so to speak I can't really wrap my head around this. It's too steerable and just echos back whatever direction you take it. No own emotional state, interests, agency, variability etc. Even as a substitute for social interaction it feels so inadequate to be pointless. Plenty of people do roleplaying and AI girlfriends etc so I guess it depends on the person?

Indeed, talking to an AI is basically talking to yourself

I wouldn't go so far.

It is more like that one friend who always says "yes" to whatever opinion you have.

AI is that friend but it had read many housewive magazines.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#62

Post by netsharc »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #32

We've seen some of this with social media. Social media rose to prominence with ubiquitous always-on internet. That means that more people were connected than with prior internet technologies (which were always inherently somewhat social). The biggest negative associated with social media IMO has been organizations using the ease of creating accounts to fake social proof for political and monetary gain. Whether we li…

> Social media rose to prominence with ubiquitous always-on internet.

Hmm.. Wikipedia says: From 2005 to 2009, Myspace was the largest social networking site in the world.

Then again, Myspace (and most social media) isn't an app for synchronous communication, you logged into it and see who's interacted with your content (or comment). OK then someone invented notifications, and the smartphone (which went from bookish BlackBerry to hip and trendy iPhone in 2007-2008) would bother you.

In the old days of AOL, ICQ or MSN and not always-on-internet, you weren't reachable 24/7. I think one of these didn't even have offline messaging, meaning, if the other user is not online, you couldn't send them a message. A friend showed me ICQ and I hated the concept; I thought "but if I go online and I see someone online there, isn't it like walking into a cafe and seeing them, it'd be rude to ignore them and not say hello?". I saw it as a virtual place where people can come and go and you have a chance o catch up.

Nowadays I can make anyone's phone ping and notify them that I want their attention using WhatsApp, etc within seconds of thinking it, and we've lost the concept of "Hey, fancy seeing you here! How have you been?". It seems connecting to anyone is possible 24/7, so it doesn't happen anymore.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#63

Post by nathan_compton »

BaseBaal wrote: post #50
nathan_compton wrote: post #18

The idea that AI is going to "solve" loneliness is so insane. Even the framing of the idea is insane, in my opinion. Loneliness is not really about having someone to exchange words with, fundamentally. It is about being validated by other human beings or entities. At a most fundamental level the AI doesn't have a choice except to appear to validate you and this lack of freedom, the fact that you do not win over the A…

Robots used in care homes for elderly people may help with loneliness, especially for those with no family or friends that visit.

I guess, but only if you assume elderly people are dumb enough to believe that a thing with no free will paying attention to them means something other than "no actual human wants to pay attention to me."

I guess some elderly people have cognitive decline and might buy this, but I respect elderly people enough not to bet on it.

Fundamentally, in my opinion, you cannot alleviate a human's need for the regard of other humans by substituting a non-human thing whose entire raison d'etre is to step in where it is economically inefficient to put a person. The actual message sent to a human being when you try to pass off an "economically efficient" non-human caretaker or "friend" to them is unmistakably "You do not actually matter to other humans."

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#64

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

api wrote: post #17
cedws wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also doomscrolling. I genuinely think a large portion of Gen Z would rather stay in bed watching Instagram reels than go out to a bar or club. I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude.

Doomscrolling is very different from web surfing. The mind is far less engaged. It’s a hypnotic state, deeply addictive and soporific. Contrarian take (not saying I believe this) but what if AI companions actually engage the mind more? Is there some positive path available here?

I’m not sure it’s one or the other. Firing off a prompt to Claude Code and letting it rip can be great for productivity but I won’t pretend I’m reading every line it writes unless I have to.

And yet if I’m inquiring into a subject matter I have scant knowledge about, and want to learn more about, I voraciously read the output and plan my next prompt thoughtfully throughout.

The dividing line is intellectual curiosity. AI can stimulate the mind in ways people may not have thought possible, like explaining subjects they never grasped previously, but the user has to want to go down that path to achieve it.

Social media doomscrolling, by contrast, is designed to anesthetize, so the result should not surprise.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#66

Post by mr_toad »

xandrius wrote: post #29
markus_zhang wrote: post #20

Loneliness is a benefit, not a curse. I need some degree of loneliness to keep sane. But it would be very interesting if a beautiful AI companion can teach me Math and Physics. I wonder when they will be able to do that, and with what kind of cost?

Loneliness is not mere solitude. Loneliness is not being happy with being alone, solitude is the state of being alone. I couldn't find a word for specifically being happy about it. So, loneliness is intrinsically negative, otherwise one wouldn't feel that way.

> I couldn't find a word for specifically being happy about it.

The German word waldeinsamkeit roughly translates as the feeling of peace from being alone in the wilderness.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#67

Post by Esophagus4 »

nathan_compton wrote: post #46
xandrius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loneliness is not mere solitude. Loneliness is not being happy with being alone, solitude is the state of being alone. I couldn't find a word for specifically being happy about it. So, loneliness is intrinsically negative, otherwise one wouldn't feel that way.

Having some intrinsically negative experiences is good, arguably.

That’s part of what the article argues: there is a “corrective” nature to loneliness.

If you’re lonely because you’re insufferable, the author proposes, loneliness is the indicator that you should change to become more socially accepted.

Personally, I’m not sure how well that feedback loop works, in reality. Are we to believe that people in a lonely streak can just go, “oh, I must be the problem. Maybe I should stop being annoying by talking about CrossFit all the time, and that will help!”

It seems more likely to me that loneliness actually exaggerates the qualities about us that make us lonely. Too lazy to find the source right now, but I read that people are more likely to believe conspiracy theories after experiencing long term loneliness, and they are quicker to anger / irritability.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#68

Post by api »

deadbabe wrote: post #39

I think Gen Z will be a fucked up generation due to technology but we might be getting it wrong for future generations. There could be a future generation that decides for whatever reason, high technology like AI and smartphones, just isn’t cool. What can you do about people who just walk around with a dumb phone and a pocket size digital camera that takes DSLR quality photos that are way better than a smartphone? Pr…

The 90s, especially the latter years, are durably regarded as a high point by multiple generations who lived through them at multiple ages. My wife’s grandfather was an old man during that time and even said this.

It wasn’t that everything was great. It was that there was a palpable sense, supported by a great deal of evidence, that things were getting better.

This did also include things like race relations and LGBTQ acceptance. The latter was worse then but visibly improving. The former has become worse since then.

The optimism ended on 9/11. I firmly believe that the terrorists won. They destroyed the culture of the west on that day and it has never recovered. It was our reaction that did it, not the planes, but I think that was the plan.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#70

Post by WHA8m »

Krasnol wrote: post #51
andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if there were more non-commercial activities/spaces available... which there are fewer and fewer.

It is a pest upon humankind that this system needs to monetize everything humans want or need.

Same here: I agree. On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. We need money to pay people to make nice things, because apparently there is no critical mass that cares about the community. It's always individuals that burden it on their shoulders. And that's obviously not sufficient. Solution: money. Yeah, I hate it too.
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