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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#311

Post by taneq »

ldoughty wrote: post #282
technothrasher wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they prioritize you when you've already paid? Wouldn't they first go after the possibility of more tip money on jobs that haven't yet paid it? I mean, if I was a driver, unless there are more high tip jobs than I could handle, I'd take those and fill in with low tip jobs, and I'd deliver the low tip jobs first in a hope of getting an after the fact tip.

Delivery drivers on some apps are told the expected pay for a trip. If you don't tip, they might decline the job because it costs them more to deliver then they make. This makes your order sit longer until someone decides to do it, perhaps because there's a penalty from the company for declining jobs, and the driver is willing to lose money to remain in good standing

So it’s hiding behind social pressure to externalise costs? Which I guess is tipping in general.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#312

Post by nemomarx »

walterbell wrote: post #302
logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service?

Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your order if you didn't tip, but maybe they'll be happier with you or be more generous if you tip now too.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#313

Post by taneq »

cons0le wrote: post #267
xiphias2 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a way for them to prioritize your order before others as they see how much money they earn, so actually it's a bidding process disguised as tipping. I'm not sure if it's shown in the backend though, but I have seen things like this in other delivery apps.

A lot of times, that makes the order come slower. A higher tip means the app will pair your order with someone else that didn't tip or tipped smaller, using your money to make up the difference. I consistently get faster deliveries when I tip towards "the average" instead of over tipping

Why would you keep using an app that you suspect was cynically exploiting your generosity like that? I’d drive every time rather than encourage such behaviour.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#314

Post by marcusb »

closewith wrote: post #272
circlefavshape wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not to be rude" my hole. What @CalRobert said is 100% accurate - only we are allowed to criticise Ireland, and criticism is especially unwelcome from Brits and Yanks

I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries. In my experience, the United States and England (not the entire UK) have the thinnest skin and some people will straight-up tell you to f-off home on the slightest criticism, especially on the subject of human rights or the expeditionary wars. There are of course the usual suspects, the racists and "Pro-Irish"…

> I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries.

Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#315

Post by jumpkick »

ghiculescu wrote: post #87
ecb_penguin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money. People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.

As an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda. Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.

As an American, having traveled in Europe a few times and dined out a lot, I much prefer the culture of just leaving me alone and letting me signal the waiter to come over when I need something.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#316

Post by fireflash38 »

TylerE wrote: post #286
preommr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "treat you better than everyone else." People say this, but what is better service? It's not like you get better or more food, or get the food faster since all that depends on the kitchen that isn't getting tipped directly. It's pretty much them coming to your table to take your order. I'd much rather have a free burger or drink (the equivalent of what I could get instead of tipping) with the slow service than get…

> It's not like you get better or more food, or get the food faster since all that depends on the kitchen Oh, trust me, go to a decent place, be a regular, tip decently (not even extravagantly), you absolutely get looked after. For instance, several of my usual lunch spots my usual fountain drink is often "water" on the bill.

Isn't that then stealing from the owner?

I just don't think of a way you can have tipping and it not create perverse incentives like that.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#317

Post by arealaccount »

walterbell wrote: post #302
logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

If you’re asked for a 20/25/30% tip before they even start preparing your food, and you need to make extra clicks while the tip recipient is looking at you if you want to tip lower, theres a small fear that the food you ordered wont be prepared as well as someone who left the tip

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#318

Post by afthonos »

walterbell wrote: post #302
logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

In the US, the tip is an expected part of the expense of eating out (and increasingly having any human in the loop). I hate it, and I really wish it wasn’t the case, but it pretty much is. If you say “I didn’t tip because the service was what I expected”, you’re pretty much considered an asshole.

(Incidentally, this is also one of the reasons why the costs of eating out in the US and seem so much lower. Most people who come from non-tipping cultures don’t understand that Americans actually tend to pay significantly more than sticker price, especially after you include taxes, which are also often excluded).

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#319

Post by fireflash38 »

ghiculescu wrote: post #150
RobinL wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just supply and demand. It makes working in these industries relatively more attractive, increasing supply of labour and therefore reducing price of labour. So restaurant owners capture some of the benefits

So employees earn more, and restaurants spend less. And this is bad because?

Aren't we already in a manufacturing hole and we're incentivizing more service industries over them?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#320

Post by grues-dinner »

froddd wrote: post #276
logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Sad if this is no longer the case. In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.

> In the UK at least this is still very much the case.

Except for the very pervasive 12.5% "discretionary" service charge the you would have to request to be removed. Which is a genius piece of social engineering.

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