Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 618 posts

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#271

Post by einpoklum »

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

> and have the restaurant pay their people for their work.

For that, you need the restaurant employees to be organized in a strong, independent, non-corrupt union; or a highly-upstanding restaurant owner/manager.

The latter is sometimes the case, but often/usually - not.

So, former is rarely the case, I'm afraid, because working-class consciousness in many countries is lacking; and forming a union is hard; and restaurant staff have a lot of churn, so by the time you get the idea to do this, or have started work on it, you might be going elsewhere.

But regular restaurant clients taking owners to task about wages is definitely a thing to consider...

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#272

Post by closewith »

circlefavshape wrote: post #259
closewith wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. Not to be rude, but have you considered this may have been an issue with you and your attitude, rather than everyone you met, if even people who you seemed to think liked you cou…

"Not to be rude" my hole. What @CalRobert said is 100% accurate - only we are allowed to criticise Ireland, and criticism is especially unwelcome from Brits and Yanks

I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries.

In my experience, the United States and England (not the entire UK) have the thinnest skin and some people will straight-up tell you to f-off home on the slightest criticism, especially on the subject of human rights or the expeditionary wars.

There are of course the usual suspects, the racists and "Pro-Irish" crowd, who will blame everything on immigrants and accept no criticism of their imagined Ireland, but this isn't true in general.

However, if you make grand pronouncements from a position of profound ignorance and overtly judge the life choices of your new compatriots - a speciality of the GP - you will find yourself alienated at best. This is true everywhere, not just Ireland.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#273

Post by logifail »

voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service

Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?

I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service".

What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#274

Post by yxhuvud »

reissbaker wrote: post #164
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

Having just come back to the States from a trip to Europe — sheesh, I hope not. The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre, and typically god-awful. Incentivizing good service is good. Yes, yes, "but the price on the menu says..." Whatever. If you're in the U.S., it's normalized that the price you actually pay is 20% higher, assuming they treat you well. Restaurants don't typically print the…

I'd expect all prices to include taxes, be it restaurants or other shops. Everything else is just making it harder for the customer for no reason at all. What you see is what you pay.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#275

Post by theshackleford »

NullifyNAN wrote: post #227
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

Doesn’t affect anything in my country using the same apps. I’ve always gotten fast delivery, as does everyone I know and nobody tips. Tipping is for yanks.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#276

Post by froddd »

logifail wrote: post #273
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?

Sad if this is no longer the case.

In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#277

Post by TrackerFF »

bapak wrote: post #74
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.

My take is that it is spreading not due to culture, but due to how all new point of sale systems / card terminals come with a "tip" feature implemented.

I'm from Europe, and have traveled here extensively. Tipping is pretty rare, but for the past maybe 5 years, almost all new payment terminals have the tipping option.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#278

Post by fatnoah »

NullifyNAN wrote: post #227
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

> You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market.

IMHO, this isn't a new phenomenon. Close to 18 years ago, I lived in a city with a popular pizza spot that was about a 10 minute walk away. Normally I'd walk, but having a newborn make that challenging, so I'd get delivery.

Typically, the delivery would take 60+ minutes on a busy night, but after a few consecutive Fridays of a decent tip for the order, the pizza would arrive "burn your fingers" in about 20 minutes.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#279

Post by codegrappler »

cherryteastain wrote: post #199

Doesn't this also open a huge opportunity for tax evasion? Say I am a small business owner selling a $90 item which is $100 with state sales taxes. I say if you are willing to tip me at least $90, the item is $1. The buyer saves $9 from state sales taxes, and I save on income taxes because tips are exempt from tax.

The law accounts for this. Jobs and industries that previously and traditionally don’t work on tips cannot convert to a method you describe.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#280

Post by ourmandave »

beefnugs wrote: post #66
Workaccount2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS is going to publish a list of eligible occupations by years end.

like being president, and getting crypto tips from supportersuckers

It's amazing how the Saudis managed to fit a 747 into a tip jar.
Post reply on HN