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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#211

Post by petercooper »

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

I agree with your post. But..

I'm from the UK and travel in the US a lot and US service is much better. I've never had to chase up the check or had to go and search for staff to serve me after sitting there for ten minutes. These are common occurrences in the UK for me.

Ideally, tipping wouldn't exist and everything would be priced in, but pragmatically, incentives grant extra benefits to both parties. Potential for more money for the server, better service (and the ability to punish bad service) for the customer.

(I know everyone making similar observations is getting voted down, so I appreciate I may simply be far off the bell curve on this and the majority experience the total opposite. But it's my reality.)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#212

Post by kelnos »

reissbaker wrote: post #164
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

Having just come back to the States from a trip to Europe — sheesh, I hope not. The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre, and typically god-awful. Incentivizing good service is good. Yes, yes, "but the price on the menu says..." Whatever. If you're in the U.S., it's normalized that the price you actually pay is 20% higher, assuming they treat you well. Restaurants don't typically print the…

I dunno, I was in Europe (Belgium and France) last summer, and I thought the service was generally excellent. A bit slower in France, perhaps, than in the US, but I chalked that up to people just generally not being in as much of a hurry as they can be in the US. (And hell, there are plenty of places in the US where service is slower than I'd like.)

We tend to avoid touristy areas, though, when we travel, so maybe that explains the better service. If I had to work in a service job that caters to tourists, I'd probably be less happy too.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#213

Post by kelnos »

reissbaker wrote: post #178
paganel wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Service is quite good in Europe if you ignore the touristy areas. We’re also not into that fake-smiling thing, so maybe that can be seen by an American as “bad service”.

I don't care about smiling. I care that when I want to leave, I can pay quickly. In Europe, it's incredibly slow, pretty much everywhere, including random rural towns in the middle of nowhere, including for random other patrons who are locals. The best service I ever witnessed in Europe was like, maybe mid-tier American fast casual level: aka, mediocre.

Ah that's the difference, then. You equate good service with bringing the check immediately. I'm afraid not doing that isn't bad service, it's just a cultural difference that you have to get used to when you travel sometimes.

Having said that, on the occasion when I've been in places like that and I really was in a hurry, no one has looked at my funny or seem put out when I've flagged someone down to ask for the check.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#214

Post by [deleted] »

TFYS wrote: post #160
JasonBorne wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely a huge difference in countries where they tip and countries where they don't tip.

Coming from a country with no tipping at all, it was somewhat creepy how the people expecting tips acted when I visited the US for the first time. You can tell when friendliness is fake/forced, and living in a country without tipping you don't see it nearly as much. I felt a bit uncomfortable.

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#215

Post by ponector »

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

Also a tip goes to the pretty face who bring you plates.

However, the whole restaurant experience is made by many people: dishwasher boy, prep boy, shef, cleaning lady, etc.

They should tip to cleaning lady as dirty toilet can ruin whole "experience".

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#216

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

kelnos wrote: post #196
bilekas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions. That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that rais…

I live in a country with near zero tipping culture.

For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service.

Now, the logic of what youre talking about makes perfect sense and I agree with that in principle. And yet there is something about dining that is somehow different. Escapes that definition.

There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality.

Don't get me wrong, I live in EU for a reason, but some things here are made unnecessarily complicated and oblique too.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#217

Post by kelnos »

Aloisius wrote: post #21
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://jacobin.com/2025/07/restaurant-industry-tipped-submi... https://jacobin.com/2020/10/tipped-restaurant-workers-waiter... https://cepr.net/publications/customer-tips-are-providing-th...

I live in California and this isn't true here. All restaurant workers receive at least minimum wage before tips. In my city, that's $19/hour with health insurance. Of course, you're still expected to leave a tip and suggested minimum is now 20%, plus even McDonalds is charging $15 for a 4 oz burger, so I rarely go out to eat at places that expect a tip anymore. I'm not sure why they specifically should be tax exempt…

I'm happy that CA doesn't set a lower min wage for tipped workers, but the problem is that in many/most places in CA, $19/hr is still not a living wage, so the tips are more or less required to keep those workers housed and eating.

A living wage in most population centers in CA is nearly $30/hr.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#218

Post by bongripper »

voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

[dead]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#219

Post by [deleted] »

swagmoney1606 wrote: post #75
aaplok wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware the logical fallacy. "A implies B" does not mean that "not A implies not B". Workers who earn too little to pay taxes (A) will not benefit from a tax cut (B). But workers who earn enough (not A) may still not benefit (not B), for example because their employer indirectly pockets the difference. That is actually being argued in the article. So this is indeed the appropriate way of formulating the statement: at…

But it would be true to say not B implies not A right? (contrapositive?)

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#220

Post by kelnos »

godelski wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seven states do not have a separate, lower minimum wage for tipped employees. Instead, they require employers to pay tipped employees the full state minimum wage, regardless of tips received. These states are Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. Sixteen states use the federal tipped minimum wage of $2.13: Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska,…

> Seven states do not have a separate, lower minimum wage for tipped employees All workers, in every state, must be paid at least minimum wage. There's a subtle but important difference in wording. There is no "lower minimum wage" for any employee anywhere. The rule is that employers may credit tips towards pay, up to a certain amount. And they can never credit 100% of pay. So tipped employees should always earn: min…

Right, but if a tipped employee in a lower-tipped-minimum state doesn't make the full minimum wage when their tips are included, it's a lot easier in a place like that for a shady employer to fail to top up their wage. Yes, in theory there are ways for employees to get this enforced, but in practice they are very reasonably and understandably wary about making use of those legal avenues.

Not to mention that in a state where there is no lower tipped-wage minimum, all tips go to the employees directly. In a state where the tipped minimum is lower, tips effectively go to the employer for the amount between the tipped minimum and regular minimum, as that's a cost the employer would otherwise have to pay.

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