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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#151

Post by kergonath »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101
omnimus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they treat you better? In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave?

> In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave? Definitely the next time I come back. Restaurant workers should earn a good wage. Tipping should not be mandatory. But tips, in particular large tips, are fine and work globally.

You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person. It has the added bonus that when they greet you and "treat you better" (whatever you mean by that) next time you’ll know it’s not just because of your wallet.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#152

Post by CalRobert »

closewith wrote: post #147
CalRobert wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent half my adult life in Ireland, had kids there, built a house there, etc and like to think that during said time I learned a few things and noticed changes. I do think part of it related to POS systems normalizing it. But it is certainly possible that our experiences differed. It was more common in Dublin 2 than in Offaly I'd say... Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about…

> Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. Not to be rude, but have you considered this may have been an issue with you and your attitude, rather than everyone you met, if even people who you seemed to think liked you cou…

No, not really. My experience there was generally positive and I met lots of great people. That being said it’s fair to observe that different cultures have different traits. I have a friend here in the Netherlands from Roscommon and he gives out about Ireland -much- more than me, and when I mentioned we’d lived in Offaly he described it as “the beating heart of Irish begrudgery”, which checks out.

Anyway this conversation is a net negative to my day and I’m bowing out.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#153

Post by gwd »

bilekas wrote: post #131
CalRobert wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Ireland from 2013-2023 I saw tipping get _much_ more common, sadly.

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

> It really should not be on random strangers to determine the employees salaries directly

FTFY

(I mean, actually I agree with your point too; but personally I think tipping is much more unfair to the employees than to the customers.)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#155

Post by RobinL »

ghiculescu wrote: post #150
RobinL wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just supply and demand. It makes working in these industries relatively more attractive, increasing supply of labour and therefore reducing price of labour. So restaurant owners capture some of the benefits

So employees earn more, and restaurants spend less. And this is bad because?

Because you're artificially favouring one specific industry, at a cost to all other industries.

And because the implication of your argument is we should never tax anything because that's a benefit to both the consumer and the business

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#156

Post by olalonde »

JasonBorne wrote: post #91
efitz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.

There is definitely a huge difference in countries where they tip and countries where they don't tip.

What do you mean? Service is usually far better in Asia than in Western countries and there's no tipping.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#157

Post by ffsm8 »

bilekas wrote: post #131
CalRobert wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Ireland from 2013-2023 I saw tipping get _much_ more common, sadly.

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people.

Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time.

From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants.

I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#158

Post by pnt12 »

ghiculescu wrote: post #150
RobinL wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just supply and demand. It makes working in these industries relatively more attractive, increasing supply of labour and therefore reducing price of labour. So restaurant owners capture some of the benefits

So employees earn more, and restaurants spend less. And this is bad because?

Well, the money doesn't appear with magic, so someone is paying: the government (forfeiting taxes) or the consumer (more pressure to tip).

To me, the bad part is the tax reductions only appear in behavior I don't agree with: high overtime and tipping (when it's semi mandatory).

I'm not American, but this is also showing up in my country.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#159

Post by godelski »

FireBeyond wrote: post #119
godelski wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> California doesn't have a special minimum wage for tipped professions? NO STATE has a "special minimum wage for tipped professionals". MOST STATES allow tips to be * credited* towards wage, but NO STATE allows an employee to be paid less than minimum wage. There's a "special minimum wage THAT EMPLOYERS MUST CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS a tipped professional' S WAGE ", but that's a very different thing than "the minimal amoun…

> If the employer does not make at least $x towards an employee's wage, the employer is guilty of wage theft. See what your server's reaction is if you tell them to report this wage theft. They won't. They'll just suggest you tip them to compensate.

They should. It's easy to report. Doesn't matter if nothing happens right away, because the more reports that accumulate the higher priority it becomes.

So instead of trying to tell me how fruitless this is and just give up to endless arguments, maybe report wage theft if you know about it. You can do it anonymously. You can do it for people that tell you. It's not a hopeless situation. Hell, lawyers take payment after the case is won, and you know if your wage is being stolen then others are too

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#160

Post by TFYS »

JasonBorne wrote: post #91
efitz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.

There is definitely a huge difference in countries where they tip and countries where they don't tip.

Coming from a country with no tipping at all, it was somewhat creepy how the people expecting tips acted when I visited the US for the first time. You can tell when friendliness is fake/forced, and living in a country without tipping you don't see it nearly as much. I felt a bit uncomfortable.
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