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'70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

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Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#101

Post by burnt-resistor »

I have an e-scooter that goes 60 mph / 100 kph. (Kaabo Wolf King GT Pro)

I also have one that goes about 45-50 mph / 72-80 kph. (Kaabo Wolf Warrior 11)

The limiting factors really are a. cost and b. common sense.

a. They're not cheap, being ~$2-4k and sometime take special shipping (freight) to arrive. And if you need repairs or service, the few major Kaabo dealers I've dealt with in the US are absolute amateur hour, fly-by-night trash. You're better off buying parts from AliExpress and repairing them yourself.

b. These aren't items to give kids or any under about age 17-20, depending on self-control, responsibility, protective gear, and suitable areas for use. Having a nanny state impose costs, limits, and regulations impinges on personal freedom... as the US has done effectively forbidden better foreign EVs (that won't participate in US homologation because there's no money in it). Any mode of transportation without a VIN, number plate, driver's license, and insurance already isn't allowed on highways essentially everywhere.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#103

Post by namibj »

toast0 wrote: post #24
skeeter2020 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, and may fool a casual glance but legally is not classified as a bicycle. The difference is if it has a throttle or is pedal assist. No one is hitting 30 mph on these things without a throttle

Pedal assist can almost certainly be tuned to get you to 30 mph if the motor can do it. I've used a few e-bikes, and the nice ones have pedal assist that has good feel, but the less expensive ones have pedal assist that's a janky throttle with more steps. I understand the motivation for requiring pedal assist rather than a throttle, but the motor speed cutout is the important bit. If I can put it in easy gear and ped…

The typical premium/brand-name e-bike in Germany AFAIK uses torque sensing u to electronically transform the apparent weight of the loaded vehicle (more acceleration for the same felt/pedaled force), which seems to benefit nuanced control.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#104

Post by namibj »

zaphar wrote: post #36
RhysU wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capability is a poor metric. Bicycles go downhill real damn fast. The top speed of a bicycle is largely limited by how foolish the person atop it is and the local geography. Bicycles can be geared to go across the salt flats real damn fast. The top speed of a bicycle is largely limited by how foolish the person atop it is and the local geography. Bicycles, even without crazy geography or gearing, can be ridden real d…

Anything on wheels is going to go downhill real fast. Terminal velocity under gravity is not what we use for classifying vehicles because it doesn't serve as a useful bucket because it's not a feature of the average mechanism of propulsion. And that's the part we care about. The presence of top athletes doesn't change the average users experience of the vehicle.

Typical bicycle geometry is just tire limited in it's high speed cornering performance; a 4-wheel car with a center of mass relative to size anywhere near as high would just fall over before really hitting tire limits.

Coasting down switch-backs at whatever speed the car traffic on the road feels like, and not giving any car incentive to overtake by matching the speeds.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#105

Post by namibj »

potato3732842 wrote: post #61
olivermuty wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? We have a TON of ebikes i Norway and the cops regularly do checkpoints of suspected chippers in the main commute routes. They have a little threadmill thing similar to what chiptuners use when tuning car engines that measure torque, watt and top speed.

Paying cops to run a checkpoint and dyno test bikes?!! That seems like a huge waste of government resources unless the goal is to save money on other enforcement areas by instilling a message of "don't you dare goose step an inch out of line, we're watching". I suspect it's more about pandering to police supporting demographics and looking busy than it is about enforcing anything.

Might be tamed by asset (vehicle here) forfeiture provision in some of the stricter European countries for when you do worse than just minor speeding: get caught e.g. street racing and now the state auctions off your vehicle, without you seeing a cent.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#106

Post by olivermuty »

potato3732842 wrote: post #61
olivermuty wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? We have a TON of ebikes i Norway and the cops regularly do checkpoints of suspected chippers in the main commute routes. They have a little threadmill thing similar to what chiptuners use when tuning car engines that measure torque, watt and top speed.

Paying cops to run a checkpoint and dyno test bikes?!! That seems like a huge waste of government resources unless the goal is to save money on other enforcement areas by instilling a message of "don't you dare goose step an inch out of line, we're watching". I suspect it's more about pandering to police supporting demographics and looking busy than it is about enforcing anything.

What a weird outlook.

For me its more «I am happy that the police removes dangerous uninsurable vehicles from the road»

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#107

Post by rib3ye »

shkkmo wrote: post #31
rib3ye wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the Super73 mentioned in the piece: It has pedals directly connected to a chain. That's the difference between a motorcycle and an e-bike, not speed. Edit: I am not saying these things aren't crazy fast and dangerous, but if you go into an electric motorcycle store and they try to sell you an e-bike with a pedal assist, it's obvious they are not the same thing. The form-factor is just different.

> That's the difference between a motorcycle and an e-bike, not speed. Not legally. I would argue that the presence of pedals matters much less than the power and weight of the device when it comes to how it should be regulated. Power and weight are what create the risks that the laws exist to regulate. If you have an ~80 pound device with hardware that can do >40mph on flat ground, it should not regulated like a bic…

But in every state except Connecticut, it is regulated like a bicycle.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#109

Post by tetromino_ »

potato3732842 wrote: post #54
nluken wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. The "higher class" of which you speak has existed for a long time, albeit usually fulfilled by gas powered vehicles until recently: https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s... There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mop…

>There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles Pedestrian dander is a stupid red herring. When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road. That reason mopeds are neutered by regulation is that the Karens of yesteryear didn't like the noises they made. A few dumb people riding them on the sidewalk was just the…

> When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road.

When e-cyclists ride in the road and obey the same traffic laws as cars in regard to traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian crossings, and direction of traffic. But in practice a majority of them don't.

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