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Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

131–140 of 325 posts

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#131
There is a difference between being physically tired as a result of metabolic effort, and being mentally tired/sleepy. Even if you lie on the couch all day you will still be tired come night time, and can not survive for long if deprived of sleep.

It seems the mental need for sleep comes from the brain needing offline (no sensory input) downtime for "housekeeping" activities - perhaps essentially organizing and filing away the day's short-term memories.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#132

There is a difference between being physically tired as a result of metabolic effort, and being mentally tired/sleepy. Even if you lie on the couch all day you will still be tired come night time, and can not survive for long if deprived of sleep. It seems the mental need for sleep comes from the brain needing offline (no sensory input) downtime for "housekeeping" activities - perhaps essentially organizing and filin…

the brain burns more power when doing mentally exhausting tasks than at idle, so it makes sense to have to recharge mitochondria in there. (the 'more' is not huge, like 5% - so it also makes sense to be tired after a lazy day I guess)

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's almost exactly what people said about the appetite -- about the biochemical pathways which govern hunger, which are known to be massively redundant and overlapping. But then Ozempic was released and it turned out there was a shortcut after all. Which is not to say that such things are necessarily "healthy" or desirable, just that you can't rule out that biochemically-modifiable characteristics, however complex…

And exactly as I said, Ozempic does more harm in the long run.

source?

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#134

So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. The paper shows that cell‑autonomous mild uncoupling in Drosophila sleep‑inducing neurons -- via Ucp4A/Ucp4C -- keeps the flies awake by lowering mitochondrial Δp and therefore electron leak. This suggests a biochemical rationale for sleep -- which is postponed by the uncoupler. That form of pharmacological manipulation is also a very local in…

I'm curious how the few famous people that do not sleep at all, what's going on in their biochemestry? I don't mean celebrities, there are a few people who became famous because they do not sleep. They hold 2 complete careers, one during the day and one at night to keep from getting bored.

Stimulants and embellishment (potentially inadvertent)

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's almost exactly what people said about the appetite -- about the biochemical pathways which govern hunger, which are known to be massively redundant and overlapping. But then Ozempic was released and it turned out there was a shortcut after all. Which is not to say that such things are necessarily "healthy" or desirable, just that you can't rule out that biochemically-modifiable characteristics, however complex…

And exactly as I said, Ozempic does more harm in the long run.

Proof? Doesn't need to be specific -- a general study showing higher all-cause mortality in Ozempic users compared to a control group over a long period would be just fine.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#137
post #136

Increasing the count and efficiency of mitochondria is gonna be a big deal. ME/CFS is caused by these organelles not working as they should.

Highly recommend red light therapy for this. There's a spreadsheet that contains [1] all the scientific research does on effect on mitochondria.

[1]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJC...

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#138
post #85
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

Maybe not 'exclusively' slept, but koalas[1] sleep for a majority of the day (16-20 hours) in order to digest highly toxic eucalyptus leaves which constitute the main portion of their diet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koala

But that's a case of requiring additional sleep for a specific purpose

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was applicable to all neural networks, not just LLMs. Can we say that after ChatGPT's release in 2022, now antitech bros think everything is about LLMs specifically?

The statement was "AI frenzy almost convinced me that sleep was the training of our neural network with all the prompts of the day." Prompts are specific to LLMs. Most neural networks don't have prompts. Additionally, prompts happen during LLM inference, not LLM training. There are many non-technical people who claim they have experience "training" LLMs, when they are just an end user who added a lot of tokens to the…

> Additionally, prompts happen during LLM inference, not LLM training.

It is pretty common during the fine-tuning phase.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#140
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

I don't think they meant "Modern" sleep. I think they meant "Only brief periods of highly energetic activity before returning to the usual activities were precursors to our modern consciousness/wakefulness"

That is also what I am referring to. Energetic activity is required to live and to reproduce, those are the normal activities. An active creature may have evolved a state of dormancy for various reasons, but there was never an organism in a state of pure dormancy.
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