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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

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Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#91

Post by Kim_Bruning »

conartist6 wrote: post #71
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprisingly large number of musicians do use things like written music (a medieval invention, but came into its own in the renaissance) or amplifiers (a modern one).

Sure but that's different than saying "if you don't use those things you are worthless and will fail"

Ah, I personally read it as "Use of good tools makes you more competitive",

but you're right that "I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." could have multiple other readings too.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#92

Post by jraph »

aeon_ai wrote: post #69
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

> cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for

I don't think you should use LLMs for something you can't master without.

> will find themselves unable to compete

I'd wait a bit more before concluding so affirmatively. The AI bubble would very much like us to believe this, but we don't yet know very well the long term effects of using LLMs on code, both for the project and for the developer, and we don't even know how available and in which conditions the LLMs will be in a few months as evidenced by this HN post. That's not a very solid basis to build on.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#93

Post by conartist6 »

aeon_ai wrote: post #69
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

Really, scales human cognition wasn't designed for?

Human cognition wasn't designed to make rockets or AIs, but we went to the moon and the LLMs are here. Thinking and working and building communities and philosophies and trust and math and computation and educational institutions and laws and even Sci Fi shows is how we do

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#94

Post by phito »

We need better local LLMs to stop relying on these predatory companies. Anthropic is not even 5 years old (and Claude 2yo) and already showing their teeth.

And to be clear, the users abusing the "unlimited" rates they were offering to do absolutely nothing productive (see vibe-coding subreddits) are no better.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#95

Post by TrackerFF »

jennyholzer wrote: post #67
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

[flagged]

I think it is great to take pride in ones craft, but in the end it comes down to this: We create software for users.

If the user can't feel any difference in quality between human made software, or AI made software, then it does not mater. It is that easy.

If AI makes better software, at lower prices, human developers will become obsolete. It is the natural way of life.

Once we had telephone operators, now we don't. Once you had to be a good tradesman with good knowledge in how to use a mallet/hammer, axe, chisel, etc. to build a house - now you don't. You don't get awarded for being old-fashioned.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#96

Post by mcny »

catmanjan wrote: post #79
aeon_ai wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

Maybe somehow this will be true in the future, but I am finding that as soon as you work on a novel or undocumented or non internet available problem it is just a hallucinating junior dev

The dirty secret is most of the time we are NOT working on anything novel at all. It is pretty much a CRUD application and it is pretty much a master detail flow.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#97

Post by jennyholzer »

aeon_ai wrote: post #69
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

IMO Version Control, IDEs, and Stack Overflow are many degrees of magnitude more valuable than GPT tools.

The use cases of these GPT tools are extremely limited. They demo well and are quite useful for highly documented workflows (E.G. they are very good at creating basic HTML/JS layouts and functionality).

However, even the most advanced GPT tools fall flat on their face when you start working with any sort of bleeding edge, or even just less-ubiquitous technology.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#98

Post by OtherShrezzing »

danskeren wrote: post #85
epistasis wrote: post #6

I'm trying to cancel my Claude plan right now, because mid-research I got hit with a one hour time out for the first time, and I realized just how little I need the "expensive" research stuff and just want basic language refinement and some basic augmented knowledge search to get more terms to search the web. And all that basic stuff gets cutoff when you hit some invisible barrier that you have no way of controlling…

Claude definitely engage in some shady and illegal behavior. I wanted to see what the annual plan would cost as it was just displaying €170+VAT, and when I clicked the upgrade button to find out (I checked everywhere on the page) then I was automatically subscribed without any confirmation and without ever seeing the final price before the transaction was completed. Turns out that price was €206.50. Getting refunded…

You might not have noticed in all the frustration, but you got overcharged. 170 + 20% VAT is 204, not 206.50.

Maybe they added a card fee in at the end, but if they didn’t make that abundantly clear, they’ve broken a law in most countries which use the Euro.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#99

Post by jennyholzer »

TrackerFF wrote: post #95
jennyholzer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think it is great to take pride in ones craft, but in the end it comes down to this: We create software for users. If the user can't feel any difference in quality between human made software, or AI made software, then it does not mater. It is that easy. If AI makes better software, at lower prices, human developers will become obsolete. It is the natural way of life. Once we had telephone operators, now we don't.…

I make better software because I don't think like this.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#100

Post by mystifyingpoi »

nashashmi wrote: post #12

I think the difference this time is that there is no lock in with a contract like AT&T customers had when they bought iPhones. Unlimited for startups work better because they have zero idea on load challenges that come in the future. And they don’t have much idea how well their product will be taken in the market. Anthropic got the experience and decided they needed to maximize on reasonableness over customer trust.…

> OTOH there is no such thing as unlimited

Philosophical meandering and blaming the customer for not understanding company's shady marketing is not something I'd consider to be cool.

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