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200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

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Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#141

Post by hulitu »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #88
gruez wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also probably cheaper than the extra physical infrastructure needed for inductive loops, given that all the necessary equipment (phones, GPS, cell infrastructure) is already in place for most people. Assuming the procurement/contracting for said app is done competently, which seems questionable for most governments. Moreover even if it's cheaper, surely some sort of camera/sensor setup would be safer than drive…

The drivers don’t “fiddle with an app”. The apps use geo location to notify the traffic control system when they are near an intersection. https://www.brusselstimes.com/512118/flemish-traffic-lights-... > As soon as a driver approaches an intersection with smart traffic lights, a signal is sent via their app and the cloud to the computer controlling those traffic lights.

> a signal is sent via their app and the cloud to the computer controlling those traffic lights

No network, red light. /s

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#142

Post by hulitu »

crisnoble wrote: post #104
Ajedi32 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they wouldn't need to fiddle with an app; the software would just automatically signal their approach based on GPS/navigation info. I agree theoretically a camera + machine-learning based system could work just as well; I've always wondered why that wasn't standard on traffic lights these days given that the hardware would probably cost a few hundred dollars (if procurement for said hardware were done co…

Are we are the stage where it is normal to be giving governments always on background access to our gps location voluntarily?

> Are we are the stage where it is normal to be giving governments always on background access to our gps location voluntarily?

Yes. See Palantir for examples.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#143

Post by gruez »

shkkmo wrote: post #140
gruez wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds. See my other comment. My point isn't that it's suddenly okay to overtake because the driver can shave off 5s, just that the cartoonishly evil caricature of the driver's reasoning that OP dreamed up isn't accurate. Unfortunately, judging by the downvotes it seems like people are interpreting my o…

> just that the cartoonishly evil caricature of the driver's reasoning that OP dreamed up isn't accurate "Cartoonishly evil"?!? I'm pretty sure it is accurate for some subset of the driving population, which was the claim. > Unfortunately, judging by the downvotes it seems like people are interpreting my opposition to OP's claim that "Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them" as me a…

>I'm pretty sure it is accurate for some subset of the driving population, which was the claim.

It might be true, but that's not the same as "accurate". Let's imagine the same thing but for cyclists:

"I saw a cyclist run a red light and I had to brake to avoid T-boning him. Apparently some cyclists hate motorists and want inconvenience them as much as possible."

I'm sure there's probably "some" radical cyclists that utterly despise motorists (think /r/fuckcars) and want to go out of their to inconvenience them, but only mentioning that as a possible reason for the behavior is at best an act of omission. There's probably some far more innocuous explanation out there, like that the cyclist thought the way was clear (because there were no cars in sight).

>You didn't actually provide any evidence or argument to dispute that claim and completely ignored the key "risky" part of comment.

It's totally fair game to criticize one aspect of a comment even if you agree with the point broadly. For instance, I might not like what facebook's privacy record, but still object to comments that claim that facebook is bad for privacy because it's surreptitiously listening on people's phones.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#144

Post by [deleted] »

kuon wrote: post #56

Here (switzerland) lights turn red on purpose to slow down traffic. The idea is that if you see a green light in the distance, you are motivated to speed up to catch it before it turns red. If it is red in the distance, you slow down because you eventually have to stop, and when you are like 20m from it, detectors will see you and turn it green.

[deleted]

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#145

Post by shkkmo »

PeterStuer wrote: post #113
shkkmo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these are apps of commercial data-sharing/selling businesses, not some 'official' gov app for the benefit of the citizens. While there are a few of commercial apps that can integrate now, The goal is to have every navigation/gps app have the ability to do this. This can also be done by privacy friendly apps. > Why do these commercial entities get to influence public traffic lights? The commercial entities don't inf…

"This can also be done by privacy friendly apps." But it is not. "The commercial entities don't influence anything, they provide a tool for their users to influence the lights." While milking their data with gov backed incentives. Pay us with your data, and we will provide you tweaking traffic lights. What exactly are you running defense for? "Traffic isn't (or shouldn't be) a competition but a cooperation" Have you…

> While milking their data with gov backed incentives.

Again, the whole thrust of this article is that people aren't incentivized yet to use or switch navigation apps.

> But it is not.

Yet. If that is something you want, go fund some opensource mapping apps to add the feature.

Without detailed technical information, this seems like a reasonable approach to solve a hard problem that isn't well solved now. Opt-in traffic data collection via an open standard api seems like be best case scenario here.

I'd be interested in specific criticism about how mapping apps are given access to the API, what exact data has to be shared to enable or other specific aspects of this program.

Your knee-jerk reactionary talking points aren't interesting though.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#146

Post by huhtenberg »

rob74 wrote: post #66
kuon wrote: post #56

Here (switzerland) lights turn red on purpose to slow down traffic. The idea is that if you see a green light in the distance, you are motivated to speed up to catch it before it turns red. If it is red in the distance, you slow down because you eventually have to stop, and when you are like 20m from it, detectors will see you and turn it green.

My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. See also: people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane...

> people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane

It happens when they are yielding to someone behind that's going faster than them. It's quite common here in Europe.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#147

Post by psunavy03 »

hungmung wrote: post #136
rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

In America we have an even lower tech solution: if there's no traffic and nobody to see, you pretend the light is green.

In other parts of America there are these things called red-light cameras . . .

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#148

Post by AlecSchueler »

6510 wrote: post #78
bluecalm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have those in Poland. Sucks if you are on a bike. You need to wait for a car to turn it green for you.

In the Netherlands we have ones that detect warm bodies.

There's a road closure near me here in Rotterdam which has encouraged some people to get around it by cycling on a short patch of the tram track. It's quite funny to hear the "tram approaching" bell ringing only to look and see a small boy on his bike.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#149

Post by reverendsteveii »

rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

I know several intersections in America that do this. They go to a flashing red light because we do have an occasional problem with citizens who don't know that a traffic light that's not operating is an all-way stop sign, but the theory is the same.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#150

Post by smeej »

hungmung wrote: post #136
rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

In America we have an even lower tech solution: if there's no traffic and nobody to see, you pretend the light is green.

I was looking for this response! I am in one of those parts of America where the complete absence of other cars is interpreted as a green light, even if nobody bothers to set them to turn to blinking red/yellow during the low traffic hours.
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