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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#381

Post by johnnyanmac »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #267
crinkly wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we have a couple of problems on the table at the moment. Stop Killing Games is a good exemplar of one so I won't go there. But the other is "what happens if Steam goes evil?". Remember Google's old motto? The only solution is you download stuff and it remains runnable and usable without any connection or authorisation to any service. The distribution of it can remain wherever and you can go via a side channel if…

How exactly does an independent developer have more choice or power against credit card processors alone? That's not how it works. Mega platforms have more power and still get pushed around. Indies are completely beholden to the whims of the payment platforms unless they opt out and accept crypto instead. Mega platforms could also accept crypto for controversial or all content too.

I guess the GP's plan is a scatter approach. 1 indie has no power, but if for every banned indie you have 10 more setting up payment, it becomes financially untenable to go after them all. Compared to, say, making one or two calls to Gabe. Turning it from a game of corruption to one of whack-a-mole.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#382

Post by johnnyanmac »

slowhadoken wrote: post #118

Porn games on Steam and itch are tacky af but they don’t push them on me and I sort of just ignore them. That being said they should probably sell them on different website.

Itch has been "that different website" for pretty much all its existence. If itch isn't safe, I don't know who is. Epic doesn't really allow any of that, and GOG is still pretty picky on any submission.

DLSite is another good site but that was hit last year by this.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#383

Post by ActorNightly »

pyuser583 wrote: post #318

I read from a fairly reputable source that money laundering is a huge problem in online sex industry. Which makes sense - you have buyers and sellers who insist on anonymity, services that leave no trace once rendered, buyers and sellers lying to family and friends about what they're doing, etc. There's often no "normal" amount of consumption, for example, some sellers receive million dollar tips. Money laundering is…

Don't kid yourself. Has nothing to do with laundering. Payment processors want more transaction volume. The only time they start doing this is if they get legal pressure.

The initial regulation also didn't suppress content, it just made you have to go through age verification, which everyone knows doesn't work.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#384

Post by fc417fc802 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #307
johnnyanmac wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take the hard stance on this. I don't see how Sex is anymore harmful, addicting, or dangerous as any other number of socialties. Including Alcohol, fast food, gambling, and simply getting to into any given hobby (be it video games or playing guitar). A habit I've noticed is that a person vulnerable to being addicted to X is more prone to fall back on Y, Z, etc. even when X is fixed. So I only see "this hurts cer…

Alcohol and gambling are commonly restricted if not outright banned in various localities though, and most people would consider those and fast food to be harmful. So you seem to be agreeing with GP that while you may not think it should be banned, you find it comparable to things that are widely recognized as "generally not good for people".

Porn is also typically restricted. Just as many jurisdictions permit neither public consumption nor intoxication, everywhere I've lived had laws against publicly displaying "obscene" content.

The issue with GGP is that in context it appears to be an argument in favor of increasing restrictions (ie in favor of the events that the article is talking about) despite disclaiming that "You don't have to agree that it should be banned". That's analogous to a loaded question. Expressing agreement with the literal wording of GGP seems to also carry an implication of agreement with some rather different things as well.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#385

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kreco wrote: post #312
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you see something that you think is harmful to society, what determines whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition Evidence. If you think something is harmful to society, you have a hypothesis. The next step is to test it. Not assume it's true and ban everything. I have seen zero evidence that any of these games are harmful. If I had to hazard a guess, and this is…

This is not the correct way. If cigarette was banned from the beginning, we would still see people getting mad without much evidence. The truth is the evidence is coming half a century after when everyone got cancer. Precautionary principle should always prevail. That's why we just don't go full GMO, and you would still not wait for any proof that "it's harmless". You also don't use a random pesticide, unless you hav…

But things like pesticides are being tested and approved first. With the knowledge they were able to get at the time, they were approved. It was only later, when long term and large scale usage of certain pesticides were shown to have a negative impact on the ecosystem that they looked at them again.

Of course, these things don't live in a vacuum; the manufacturers of e.g. pesticides have a vested financial interest in selling their product, because money. They pay for scientific studies in favor of their product, they schmooze (= bribe) with decision makers and politicians, they overwhelm the system, they take their product global and sell it to whoever is buying, etc.

Same with cigarettes or asbestos or lead paint; it's part "we didn't know" because it's long-term effects or the science wasn't there yet, but part "shut up and buy my product" too.

Anyway, proof that it's harmless is not easy to get in certain cases, not when the effects only show up long-term or when the science doesn't yet know how to test. Was science at a point where they could test for the presence and endocrine effects of microplastics in the human body?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#386

Post by bko »

Mawr wrote: post #293
bko wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior. Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing. You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's n…

I'd have an easier time with this argument if it got equally applied to violence. It's ridiculous that exposure to sex is considered worse than to violence.

I'd feel more comfortable showing a 12 year old a violent movie than I would an adult movie.

Or maybe put another way, if my child was at a neighbors house and one of the parents watched an adult movie with my child I would have a huge issue. If they watched Terminator or something similar, I would have much less of an issue.

They're not even close to the same thing.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#387

Post by fc417fc802 »

bko wrote: post #386
Mawr wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have an easier time with this argument if it got equally applied to violence. It's ridiculous that exposure to sex is considered worse than to violence.

I'd feel more comfortable showing a 12 year old a violent movie than I would an adult movie. Or maybe put another way, if my child was at a neighbors house and one of the parents watched an adult movie with my child I would have a huge issue. If they watched Terminator or something similar, I would have much less of an issue. They're not even close to the same thing.

I think your analogy is a bit off. The "watched it with" really changes the dynamic. There are quite a few activities that I'd take issue with adult neighbors doing with someone else's child. That's an entirely different question from a child doing things on his own or with other children.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#388

Post by johnnyanmac »

the_af wrote: post #107

In discussions about this topic, in almost every place I see them, lots of people (against this censorship) are going "I don't play this kind of games" or "I don't personally care about tentacle fetish" (or whatever). I don't get this. Let's say it openly: what's the problem with sex and nudity in games? Why is it so unacceptable -- that even people against the censorship must loudly proclaim it's not "their thing" -…

I think the main point is showing solidarity, even for content that does not directly benefit them. There's nothing wrong with sex and nudity, but everyone will have different personal lines in their day to day life.

>must loudly proclaim it's not "their thing" -- but violence, guns, war, etc are not?

I don't think war or violence is most people's thing to begin with.

Guns, that's definitely a thorny issue. Especially in the US. I'm personalyl fine with much stricter gun control

>we all know they are not going to stop at this, right?

indeed. It's not the first wave, it won't be the last. Gotta do the same thing either way and push back.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#389

Post by bko »

knappe wrote: post #288
bko wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior. Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing. You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's n…

And I've seen video games cause people to destroy their lives. What else should we arbitrarily ban based on this criteria? It doesn't seem to hold up to much scrutiny.

I'm not saying we should ban anything.

Sure video games can be unhealthy. Maybe I'm weird but I would much rather prefer my son plays video games 8 hours a day than watches adult content 8 hours a day. Let's stop pretending like they're comparable.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#390

Post by phendrenad2 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #303
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

No this isn't just American. Most of the world is very anti-porn. The BRICS countries mostly outlaw porn. Even Nordic countries, which are very socially liberal, discourage it (at least production). There's a tendency for social liberals to see their view as the only legitimate one. Sometimes they are right. But this is an area where there is lots of international push back from undeveloped, developing, and even many…

When I finally got around to reading Fukuyama, I had an "aha" moment where I realized... oh, this is how liberal democracy thinks. They think they've perfected society and everyone agrees with them, except for a few weird superstitious cults.

Then I realized that it was all wrong, countries accept western liberal democracy only as long as the free aid keeps flowing. And the libdems were in for a rude awakening if they ever ran out of kibble.

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