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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#231

Post by vel0city »

mkleczek wrote: post #189
burkaman wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Steam dropped Visa and Mastercard and successfully got most of their customers to use a Bitcoin payment processor instead, wouldn't these organizations just pressure that processor? I don't see how it would be any different. If the problem you're trying to solve is that private payment processors can deny service to anyone they don't like, the underlying technology the processor uses is irrelevant.

Bitcoin does not require any payment processor. That's its whole point: censorship-resistant, permissionless, p2p payment system.

Bitcoin won't require a payment processor, but companies wanting to effectively handle Bitcoin will want a payment processor or else they will have to become one themselves.

Even companies working in large amounts of cash end up hiring companies to handle the cash logistics and all the other complications in dealing with it.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#232

Post by righthand »

xur17 wrote: post #225
lynndotpy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about Ethereum's equivalent, but 'Lightning' just reintroduces the problem of having one person act like a payment processor.

Not sure I follow.

V or MC perhaps?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#233

Post by bko »

RankingMember wrote: post #115
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior.

Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing.

You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's not entirely arbitrary content like say a sitcom.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#234

Post by TimorousBestie »

FranchuFranchu wrote: post #126
madaxe_again wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get people to mail you cash. Sounds stupid, but that’s how I built my first ecommerce business in the 90’s, and it was a pretty normal way to pay for stuff online. Cash, money order, bank cheque, whatever.

You can't realistically target anyone outside the US with this.

You can’t realistically target anyone inside the US with it either. USPS is allowed to seize cash in packages if it believes it’s being used for illegal purposes.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#235

Post by mkleczek »

vel0city wrote: post #231
mkleczek wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin does not require any payment processor. That's its whole point: censorship-resistant, permissionless, p2p payment system.

Bitcoin won't require a payment processor, but companies wanting to effectively handle Bitcoin will want a payment processor or else they will have to become one themselves. Even companies working in large amounts of cash end up hiring companies to handle the cash logistics and all the other complications in dealing with it.

I am not sure why any middle man is needed to "effectively" handle Bitcoin.

It is a very liquid asset - easy to move and easy to sell.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#236

Post by jimbob45 »

mwill wrote: post #17
magicmicah85 wrote: post #3

This is an opportunity for an entrepreneur to create a censorship-resistant platform, though, I don't know how you do it profitably when CSAM and other potentially criminal content needs to be reviewed.

These conservative groups aren't pressuring Steam and Itch directly, they're targeting payment processors. I don't think it's realistically viable to compete with Steam (or Itch) without access to Mastercard and Visa. (For anyone thinking crypto: we have a different idea of what it means to be either "realistically viable" or to "compete with Steam")

they're targeting payment processors

They're not "targeting" payment processors. Payment processors have to deal with significantly more problems due to the nature of porn games and chargebacks. Fix those problems and the payment processors won't have a reason anymore to ban porn (or anything). What's the point of a capitalist economy if not for startups to target market needs like these?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#237

Post by nurumaik »

scyclow wrote: post #215

There are a lot of people mentioning crypto as a possible solution to this, and a lot of people responding that crypto is a ponzi scheme, and they're not interested. But congress recently passed stablecoin legislation that could possibly fix this problem. Recipients would have a straightforward way of receiving money, and they wouldn't need to gamble on the price of bitcoin. Most people would probably still use a thi…

All stablecoins (at least popular ones) has the same underlying problem -- it's regulated and controlling entity can freeze any funds because it wants so

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#238

Post by fossgeller »

everdrive wrote: post #211
fossgeller wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well maybe they are bothered by its sexist content. People all are about free speech when it comes to censorship in media, but not that many talk about how objectification of women is still very common in it. I’m sure that there are dating sims that are just fine, but let’s be honest here, these platforms are filled with much weirder stuff . Some of them even enter the morally grey areas imo.

"Objectification" is just a clinical and negative way to describe normal male sexuality. ie, that physically beautiful women are sexually attractive.

In my book objectification means presenting women as walking sexual organs, bodies of flesh that one needs to conquer, nothing more. Many of pornographic content nowadays do this. Sexuality is not a problem, sexism is.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#239

Post by johnnyanmac »

nlawalker wrote: post #212
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

I don't really disagree with you, but to play devil's advocate - when you see something that you think is harmful to society, what determines whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition in what you see as the best interest of everyone? Is "Don't like X? Don't buy it" as far as we should go with... AI-produced child porn? Rolling coal and other egregious pollution? Online g…

>whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition in what you see as the best interest of everyone?

That lines creates justification for anything and even everyone to be banned, sadly.

>Is "Don't like X? Don't buy it" as far as we should go with... AI-produced child porn?

My line is "is there a victim harmed with the action". Shooting a gun? Yes, someone is often harmed and killed. We should and do regulate gun usage.

simulated CSAM is repulsive but does not have a victim, in theory. The jury is out on how you train such content, so I won't saw "AI porn has no victim", but the animated stuff within Steam definitely has no victim (and Steam pretty much forbids live actors of any form for such content. They dealt with such a case in 2023)

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#240

Post by miohtama »

RenThraysk wrote: post #224
nlawalker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really disagree with you, but to play devil's advocate - when you see something that you think is harmful to society, what determines whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition in what you see as the best interest of everyone? Is "Don't like X? Don't buy it" as far as we should go with... AI-produced child porn? Rolling coal and other egregious pollution? Online g…

It's not what, it's how is the problem. Side stepping local country government, and applying pressure to payment processors to enforce your own rules globally should not be able to happen. Even a government should not be able to dictate what other countries do.

The advocate group who do this believe they are exercising the will of God and do not need to mess with things like laws
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