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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#291

Post by caconym_ »

fossgeller wrote: post #248
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, weird stuff in games? Or even... morally grey actions in games? How awful!

Well yes, one could argue that if games like GTA don’t turn people into criminals than these games are also harmless. Imo it’s a bit different in this case, as a more natural instinct (sexuality) is affected. Sure, games can be beneficial for living out fantasies, but how will it affect your view on women if you frequently consume highly sexist content? The bottom line of my point is that I think this type of content…

If you start down this road, policing which media people have access to based on your own totally subjective moral standards and interpretations, you will end up with pervasive censorship that severely stunts cultural development. Because who is "you", anyway? The answer is, of course, whichever monstrous nutjob chooses to devote a huge chunk of their time and money to seizing the levers of power so that they can impose their monstrous nutjobbery on everyone else.

Seriously, outside of special, clearly delineated cases with indisputable negative externalities (especially on the production side), when has [effectively] banning certain [types of] media been a net good? Seems to me that all it's good for is political repression and fueling moral panics.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#292

Post by MBCook »

magicmicah85 wrote: post #31
mwill wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conservative groups aren't pressuring Steam and Itch directly, they're targeting payment processors. I don't think it's realistically viable to compete with Steam (or Itch) without access to Mastercard and Visa. (For anyone thinking crypto: we have a different idea of what it means to be either "realistically viable" or to "compete with Steam")

You don't need to compete with Steam or Itch for games that they can't sell, you're in your own market.

And as soon as people find out you exist, they get the payment processors to shut you down too as part of their crusade.

Now what?

If you’re visible, you’re a target. If you’re not, you don’t matter.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#293

Post by Mawr »

bko wrote: post #233
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior. Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing. You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's n…

I'd have an easier time with this argument if it got equally applied to violence. It's ridiculous that exposure to sex is considered worse than to violence.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#294

Post by warkdarrior »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #253
derbOac wrote: post #229

Why isn't there another counter group putting pressure on them to not pull this kind of thing?

The anti-capitalist left is disorganized and under-funded a priori.

Part of the left sees porn as abuse, so at a minimum they do not care about porn or may even support banning porn.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#295

Post by zahlman »

mwill wrote: post #17
magicmicah85 wrote: post #3

This is an opportunity for an entrepreneur to create a censorship-resistant platform, though, I don't know how you do it profitably when CSAM and other potentially criminal content needs to be reviewed.

These conservative groups aren't pressuring Steam and Itch directly, they're targeting payment processors. I don't think it's realistically viable to compete with Steam (or Itch) without access to Mastercard and Visa. (For anyone thinking crypto: we have a different idea of what it means to be either "realistically viable" or to "compete with Steam")

Most of the people I've seen advocating for this kind of pressure, for the purpose of suppressing this sort of content in video games, would describe themselves as very much the opposite of "conservative". But perhaps it's for the better that they are recognized as such. Because it really is a conservative instinct, no matter what American party politics might currently be dictating.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#296

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bko wrote: post #233
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior. Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing. You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's n…

> you can at least concede it's not entirely arbitrary content like say a sitcom

I'd actually hypothesise that if you locked three sets of teenage boys in rooms, one with only porn games, one with only social media and one with only sitcoms, that the first group would likely emerge the healthiest of the three. I'm basing this on my bias towards activity and that nobody seems to have bothered with actually doing research on porn games, the organisation pushing for these bans included [1], instead proxying research on porn as a whole for this specific category.

[1] https://www.collectiveshout.org/research

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#298

Post by vunderba »

bko wrote: post #233
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

I don't think you have to be Puritanical or particularly religious to realize that some content is generally not good for people. I've seen this destroy lives, drive addiction and lead to other forms of destructive behavior. Religion and taboo often exist for a reason, because endless self gratification does not lead to flourishing. You don't have to agree that it should be banned, but you can at least concede it's n…

IMHO the creation of organized religion has led to far more injustice in the world than a stray nipple (outside of Helen of Troy).

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#299

Post by JumpCrisscross »

trothamel wrote: post #286
RankingMember wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

Collective Shout, which organized this, claims to be an Australian feminist organization. (Admittedly, this may be an act.)

> laims to be an Australian feminist organization

I'm genuinely curious to see how this plays out in the American partisan landscape.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#300

Post by atmavatar »

qball wrote: post #140
MBCook wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the administration to ask for that.

Why not? Payment processors have done it to guns just as much as they've done it to porn, both under the Obama administration.

Because one of the goals of project 2025 is to make porn illegal.

    Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.
Bonus: it also aims to eliminate sex ed.

    eliminate central promotion of abortion; comprehensive
    sexuality education; and the new woke gender ideology
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