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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#121

Post by renewiltord »

some_random wrote: post #106
renewiltord wrote: post #26

> Violence and dehumanization of women should not be acceptable outcomes of free speech. We also have to consider whose voices are being heard, and whose are being silenced. Does free speech apply to women, to survivors of rape and sexual assault? Do we have a right to object to speech that promotes and normalizes violence against us? Every time someone insists on an escape hatch, it is immediately abused. One could…

>Do we have a right to object to speech that promotes and normalizes violence against us? Worth pointing out that their definition of "right to object" is evidentially identical to "right to censor".

Well, that's not precise. They are simply objecting. Others are listening to them. I have a right to tell you to go eat a pile of dung[0], for instance. Should you then go eat the dung, it is not that I exercised my right to make you eat dung.

They are simply participating in the once-maligned "cancel culture" which was protected as "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences". These kinds of escape hatches always have these results because one's enemies find a way to use them as well.

0: Just for the sake of argument. I'm not actually insulting you.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#122

Post by the_af »

some_random wrote: post #38
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The group bills themselves as feminist, but aligns with the religious right in most of their policies. They’re directly at odds with many things feminists have fought for.

I agree completely that they align with the religious right in this aspect, but you can't pretend that sex-negativity isn't a huge school of thought in feminism. Vague calls to "stop the sexualization of women in media (aimed at hetrosexual men)" have been a huge part of the casual feminist suite of views for at least a decade.

But the specific organization we're discussing is not feminist, they only disguise themselves as such.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#123

Post by the_af »

some_random wrote: post #66
righthand wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to take a look at how feminist that organization actually is.

There is a huge sex-negative feminist school of thought, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

> There is a huge sex-negative feminist school of thought, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The specific organization we're discussing is not feminist. It's religious conservative, using some of the trappings of feminism.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#124

Post by evilduck »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #119
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

Presumably, the belief of Collective Shout is that there is a causal link between acting out incest, rape, and sexual violence in games and acting on those behaviors in real life. What would you do if you harbored that belief?

Empirically prove it.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#125

Post by beeflet »

magicmicah85 wrote: post #3

This is an opportunity for an entrepreneur to create a censorship-resistant platform, though, I don't know how you do it profitably when CSAM and other potentially criminal content needs to be reviewed.

I think that the decentralized mechanisms used for censorship resistance would also make it difficult to monetize

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#126

Post by FranchuFranchu »

madaxe_again wrote: post #67
mwill wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conservative groups aren't pressuring Steam and Itch directly, they're targeting payment processors. I don't think it's realistically viable to compete with Steam (or Itch) without access to Mastercard and Visa. (For anyone thinking crypto: we have a different idea of what it means to be either "realistically viable" or to "compete with Steam")

Just get people to mail you cash. Sounds stupid, but that’s how I built my first ecommerce business in the 90’s, and it was a pretty normal way to pay for stuff online. Cash, money order, bank cheque, whatever.

You can't realistically target anyone outside the US with this.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#127

Post by metalcrow »

delecti wrote: post #52
crooked-v wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the Fair Access to Banking Act ( https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/401 ), currently stuck in committee, which would make it illegal for various financial services, including payment processors, to deny service for mere reputational reasons.

I wrongly assumed this was a D bill, and would die in committee. Turns out it's actually an R bill, with exclusively R sponsors, and now I'm wondering what awful shit is hiding in it. Though almost all of the sponsors are from almost 6 months ago, so it might die in committee anyway.

Historically, payment processors were usually against republicans, which is why you see them acting in support of this.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#128

Post by yahoozoo »

misterbishop wrote: post #7

It is alarming for credit card companies to take on a politically censorious role that supersedes legal activity. This really kicked off in 2021 when MasterCard started imposing restrictive rules on sex sites like OnlyFans. The ACLU has a campaign against it: https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/how-mastercards-new-p...

Even before that, after Charlottesville, these payment processors were banning far-right wing people such as Andrew Anglin and Nick Fuentes. Same thing, really. Pressure from outside groups.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#129

Post by the_af »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #60

My free speech red line is criticism of govt and leaders. Ban all the porn games ya want, I don't think they're very valuable. When did pornography become protected speech?

> Ban all the porn games ya want, I don't think they're very valuable.

Ban all the games, I don't think videogames are very valuable.

Ban all TV shows, I don't think TV shows are very valuable.

Ban all televised sports, I think sports are very boring and not very valuable.

In fact, ban all the things I don't particularly find valuable.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#130

Post by 0x457 »

righthand wrote: post #20
magicmicah85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the only way I see this working.

Cryptocurrency is a nice idea but there are and have always been too many gas fees for anyone to sensibly use it. I want to buy something not support everyone that get their hands in my transaction chain. The US government can break up the duopoly and open up payments processing federally. That’s worth the investment than that pipe dream of a global, frictionless cryptocurrency.

>Cryptocurrency is a nice idea but there are and have always been too many gas fees for anyone to sensibly use it. I want to buy something not support everyone that get their hands in my transaction chain.

But you're doing this with credit cards already? Different amounts, but still supporting everyone in a chain. If you want to "buy" something without supporting intermediates, then barter is the only way to go. Everything else requires common trust, and common trust comes with operating cost.

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