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Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#291
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent, but not really. Effectiveness of regenerative braking depends on having an extremely large battery that can sink enough current to stop the car. An EV can do that, hybrids at best help the brakes out some. You just can't charge the battery fast enough doing anything but a very slow rolling stop. My model Y can effect a very reasonable stop in traffic without touching the brake pedal except to hold the…

I test drove an EV and the regenerative braking was difficult to get used to. You have to constantly ride the gas pedal. I would buy an EV if it weren't for this feature.

Take a look at more EVs. There are many that aren't as opinionated about how you should drive as the one you drove (a Tesla, by any chance?).

For example here is how it works in Hyundai EVs (and I'd guess Kia too). It is easy to set them so that they drive very similar to an ICE. I believe several others also work similarly. There are only a few that try to really push you to one pedal driving.

1. When use explicitly use the brake pedal that car uses regenerative braking unless you are trying to stop faster than regeneration can handle in which case it will also use the friction brakes.

There may be a setting somewhere in the settings menus where you can adjust how strong the braking is, but I don't remember because the way the car comes from the factory the brake peddle feels a lot like an ICE car's brake peddle.

2. There is a regeneration level setting that controls what happens when you ease up on the accelerator or remove your foot from it. This setting has 6 possible settings: Level 0, 1, 2, 3, i-Pedal, and Auto.

There are two paddles on the steering wheel that let you move through these settings quickly and easily, and you can do this while driving so you are free to pick whatever setting fits the conditions and your mood the best. Here's what they do.

• In level 0 there is no braking associated with the accelerator. Take your foot off and the car coasts is if it was in neutral.

• Level 1 provides a small amount of automatic braking when you let up on the accelerator. In ICE terms it is similar to the engine braking you would get on level ground going fast enough to be in 3rd gear in a 3 speed automatic. You slow down faster than coasting, but not so fast that if you were on the freeway and your felt the need to shake your right leg around a little it would slow enough to be a problem.

• Levels 2 and 3 step up the amount of automatic braking. 3 is enough that in city driving most of the time you can be quite leisurely when it comes to moving your foot from the accelerator to the brake at most stop signs, but it will not bring your car to a complete stop. It will get quite slow and then creep at that speed.

• i-Pedal is one pedal driving mode and corresponds to what that EV you test drove was doing. In this the braking is similar to level 3 as far as aggressiveness goes, but it will take you all the way to a stop most of the time. Once you get used to it you should be able to do most city driving and most highway driving without touching the brake pedal. About the only times you would need the brake pedal (outside of emergencies) is if a light changes on you when you are too close to the intersection.

• Auto mode automatically switches between 0, 1, 2, and 3 based on the distance to the vehicle in front (using the same system that adaptive cruise control uses) and the slope of the road. If you are on the freeway for example with a good distance between cars it will be in 0 or 1. In the city where you are close to the next car it might be in 2 or 3.

• If you press and hold the "increase regen level" paddle for at least 0.5 seconds it will switch from whatever your current setting is to i-Pedal and stay in i-Pedal as long as you continue to hold the paddle. Release the paddle and it switches back to whatever your previous setting was.

This system gives you plenty of flexibility and you should be able to easily find a setting you like. Some people really like one pedal driving and so they can just put it in i-Pedal and leave it there (with a slight annoyance...when you turn the car off in i-Pedal it comes back on in level 3, so you will have to hit the regen up paddle once).

Some people set it to one of the numbered levels and leave it there (again with slight annoyance at startup where it comes on at 1 so they need a paddle flick or two).

Some people use the paddles instead of the brake pedal, mixing levels to get the kind of deceleration curve they want.

I normally drive in level 0, with an occasional day or two in i-Pedal just for a change of pace, but if I'm coming up on a series of roundabouts I might switch it to i-Pedal. That's great for say a 35 mph road with 10-15 mph roundabouts every couple of blocks. (If it is just one roundabout I'd probably use the "hold regen up paddle for 0.5 seconds" option to just turn on i-Pedal for that intersection.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is a quite common EV brand. They do not allow configuring regen braking, except for the behaviour at stand-still. (They also don't do blending between friction brakes and regen, so the cars behaviour when letting of the accelerator is highly inconsistent depending on temperature and charge level). One of the reasons I long for the lease on my Model Y to end so I can replace it with a less stupid vehicle.

I agree with the general sentiment, but this isn't relevant in the context of making a purchasing decision. Simply buy another brand.

I have learned my lesson on regen. Lots of people online (and offline, for that matter) told me that you'll get used to the Tesla behaviour in no time and not to worry about it feeling weird during the test drive.

Many thousands kilometers later I hate it almost as much as at the start, so lack of regen configuration will be a dealbreaker next time I pick a new car.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#293
post #16

We should obviously ban combustion engine cars, at least starting with cities. I can’t think of a single clearer win for air quality.

I live in a city and I don't have a car. There are very few places to charge it, and many of the lamppost charges are seemingly permanently broken. Charging at home is not an option as I would have to park it on the street. If I needed a car I would definitely go ICE or hybrid, thankfully I don't.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#294
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another part of the point is that you can pack a much smaller and more efficient ICE and then substitute the missing power and torque from electric motors when needed. Most cars are not used at max power all the time. You need max power only at short times when accelerating. With pure ICE there is the tradeoff - a bigger engine will get you more max power / max torque but is going to be less fuel efficient because of…

On paper, yes, but did that ever happen? Sorry for being sarcastic, but where I live the frugal hybrid is exceptionally rare and the "same big engine, but driving a much heavier car" hybrid is omnipresent. The kind of people who might buy the frugal one buy second or third hand while almost all buyers of factory new pick the "same big engine" option, and those are the ones who decide what's available on the second ha…

Omoda 9 (SUV) is sold in Europe only as plug-in hybrid with small-ish 1.5L 143HP engine + 394HP electric (145km of pure electric range, 35kWh LFP battery).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeed_Yaoguang

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more benefits to EV conversion in a community than the use of renewable energy, noise and roadside air quality being pretty big ones. Also... how do you know there aren't Hawaiians charging their EVs using rooftop solar? I hear they're known for being in the sun sometimes.

> Also... how do you know there aren't Hawaiians charging their EVs using rooftop solar? Because of math. A 6 kW house, to charge a 60 kW battery… so long as everyone with an electric vehicle is charging them at their house for 10 sunny hours to charge from empty, you’re right and I’m wrong. Some people could get by, but it leaves the solar for nothing else. If you leave the house while the sun is up you better get b…

If you don't use your solar, it is pushed to the grid (or batteries, if you have them), so really its about the collective solar that exists in the grid and not a house specific view. As solar rollout increases, the greenness of your EV increases even if you don't charge from your rooftop.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#296
post #49
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you doing to your tires that they only last 10k miles? I think that might be a driver error issue, because my EV (a heavier sedan) basically never needed tire replacement barring me running over a screw or something.

Just normal driving, it wasn’t quite so bad on our previous car which was a Nissan Leaf (with 30kWh battery) but our current Kia Niro just has a lot bigger batter (64kWh) and it is a lot heavier I suppose, the tyres just don’t seem to last as long. I’m pretty sure I’m using summer tyres all year round (I live in the UK) this was recommended by the dealer

The additional battery weight would be something under 250kg (having handled a few Leaf battery packs), and wikipedia says the Niro EV is about 1700kg

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general sentiment, but this isn't relevant in the context of making a purchasing decision. Simply buy another brand.

I have learned my lesson on regen. Lots of people online (and offline, for that matter) told me that you'll get used to the Tesla behaviour in no time and not to worry about it feeling weird during the test drive. Many thousands kilometers later I hate it almost as much as at the start, so lack of regen configuration will be a dealbreaker next time I pick a new car.

Hmm, what do you hate about it? I have a BYD and I always leave it at "strong", as otherwise it's too little braking (same as an ICE).

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#298
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rear brake rotors on my Yaris hybrid are basically always rusty because they get used so little. After some time you just know when to start braking so you only use regen instead of the brakes.

I confirm and that’s an unpleasant surprise. Already had to replace the rear rotors and pads on my Highlander… because of rust. They should add some “brake cleaning” mode to temporarily disable regenerative braking.

> They should add some “brake cleaning” mode

Also known as breaking. You could just do that once in a while.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if everyone drove optimally, every road is going to reach a capacity where its physically impossible to maintain a certain speed. It's similar to network congestion. Mandating that everyone drive faster won't solve anything.

It would reduce the duration of rush hour... once the least skilled drivers were improved or removed from the pool. I do agree it wouldn't solve a complete lack of capacity, civic planning, transportation infrastructure. Including lack of busses that travel frequently enough and where people want to go.

> once the least skilled drivers were improved or removed from the pool.

Let me guess this straight, the plan would be that:

1. in a global environment (the following steps are done everywhere around the world)

2. where maximum speeds, though:

- clearly marked everywhere

- mentioned during driving lessons and driving codes/books

- part of the written driving exam every driver has to pass

- enforced by police, cameras, a myriad of automated systems etc

3. are still ignored by, say, 40%+ of drivers

... so, the plan would be that in this environment, mandating minimum speeds would actually improve anything? :-)))

I'd be super happy to read the study proving this. Where by study, I mean actual physical trial.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#300
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all of us renters were forced to convert to electric there’d never be an open charger in any city again for the next five years, because no landlord will voluntarily afford that cost, and no municipal region can pass a ballot measure to afford that cost. California’s impending ban of combustion car sales hinges wholly on a magical DC-charging network that doesn’t exist in U.S. cities yet (i.e. at parking meters),…

Car based transportation is just not scalable. Other countries have figured this out. Norway in particular. Working transportation models exist and this country has the funds to make it happen. However because of American Exceptionalism, we have very limited options.

I'll add another country with even better public transport (especially trains) - Switzerland. A small, dense and very wealthy country that has train station at the heart of every city and many villages, and the rest is covered by buses.

Yet every single morning and evening there is huge traffic jam around every city. Every single year highways are more full, more issue with parking.

If it can't be solved in such ideal country for public transport, I am not holding breath for rest of the world, and just wishing something ain't gonna make it real. There are many reasons why situation is as it is (it costs a lot, even such transport doesn't cover many people's cases well enough and nobody wants to spend 120 mins every day commuting via public transport when its say 60 with cars).

What I can imagine actually working - uber style shared robo (meaning cheap) taxis/minibuses. Big enough network that one can even switch a car in some 'taxi station' for more efficient trip that would take just marginally longer than driving oneself. This solves a lot of parking issues in cities and would reduce traffic to maybe half or a bit less.

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