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Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

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Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#141
This thread has a lot of socialism vs free-market talk, but the real problem with American health care is the lack of transparency, and the middle-man, be it government or insurance doesn't change that. We have so many pointless things done, and the prices are not known ahead of time. Unless we are talking about life and death, the cost of the procedure you are doing to me should be known before I decide whether I want it or not. The number on the bill also isn't ever really the bill. The insurance company or government negotiating says no I won't pay that amount, this is the real amount you should be charging so we are going to pay this. Doctors and hospitals charge X because that is what insurance companies and government decided they would pay.

If you were negotiating this care for yourself, you could almost certainly get it cheaper (as you have a much bigger vested interest in your savings account than the government etc does), and we would not get nearly as many unneeded procedures done. Most of the time it's not even a question, and it should be. They don't say, we think maybe you should have this done and this is why. They say, we're going to do a X. Maybe they tell you why, if you ask them, otherwise it's just assumed that since I'm sick I should do what they say.

I broke my arm a few years ago playing softball. I had an extra 90 degree angle in my arm. People in the bleachers heard it snap. It was 100% broken no question about it. The hospital wouldn't give me any pain killers until they had an x-ray to see if it was broken or not. Now I suspect getting an x-ray is useful for the guy doing the surgery to fix it, and he did several as well, but there was 0 reason for the x-ray in the emergency room. It cost me (and the insurance company) money, it wasted valuable time for the nurses/doctors who could have been onto the next patient sooner, and most important it made me absolutely miserable for another hour waiting on it when all i needed was some pain killers and nice splint until I could have the surgery.

Socialism doesn't solve this problem. It just makes you pay for my x-ray.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

Wait, but two post above you said that government involvement is bad because it will turn emergency rooms to DMV. I thought state of Massachusetts runs the DMV, and hence they would be utterly unqualified to give health care? Am I getting something wrong?

I never said that they should, just that they can based on our constitution.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, oddly enough, basically the model for the current guaranteed-issue reform (scheduled to become operational in January 2014), despite the fact that the governor who passed it doesn't want to take any credit for it.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

why the downvote? there is nothing in the constitution about the federal government providing healthcare. Ergo, based on the 10th amendment it is the right of the states. Massachusetts can do whatever they want. The federal government cannot.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#144
post #82

A young coworker had an ATV accident. It was ugly, but not so bad that they weren't on IM within days talking about work. Total bill: just shy of $100,000. A friend's son had appendicitis. Uneventful appendicitis. Total bill: neighborhood of $35,000. Add to this: tens of millions of people are, despite any debilitating medical conditions or even better-than-even likelihood of incurring anomalous medical expenses at a…

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bi…

Then please, for the sake of the public good, do the following:

  Don't drive on the roads.
  Do put out your own fires if you house catches fire.
  Do hire private police for your security.
  Don't use public transportation.
  Don't use the Internet (including HN).
  Don't use, or have your children use public schooling.
  Do pay completely, without subsidy or federal grant, for all your higher education.
  Pay for a septic tank if available, or do not use public sewers.
  Don't drink water from city water.
  Better yet, don't drink water at all: EPA endorses cleaner environmental health.
  Don't eat food unless you grew it: All food is inspected by FDA.
Better yet, just go buy a boat and live in the ocean. And don't come back.

Then you can be free from "EVIL SOCIALISM".

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anesthesiologists are the worst offenders. My experience is that none of them are in network. You think you have everything covered and along comes this bill that is as big as everything else. Woe to you if you are uninsured. I had minor heart surgery nearly two decades ago. The bill was something over $80K. The insurance company disallowed most of it, bringing it down to $20K of which I had to pay $2K. Except for th…

Why is it that you can't go to a medical facility and tell the intake nurse or admin person you're not agreeing to any procedure that's not covered by your insurance. Wouldn't that put the onus back on them? Anything not covered instantly becomes a freebie or a lawsuit? Why do hospitals and clinic get away with this crap when auto mechanics and plumbers can't?

What makes you think anyone else would take on the liability of vetting your care for you? And for free?

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#146
Even with insurance it cost $1400 for a bug bite? I just had a baby (my wife) and we paid $40 for a private room. This is pretty much why I will never live in the USA. Which is unfortunate because I do like the country and could see myself living there except for this.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bi…

It's hard to take comments like this seriously when the private American health care system has worse outcomes and more than double the cost of numerous socialized systems. You can blindly chant "government isn't the solution" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it undeniably is the solution in a large number of countries with functional health systems.

Functional does not in any way mean better. I do not want to wait on a list for my health care. As I noted in another comment - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4466161 - this doesn't just have to be "current shitty system" versus "socialism". I never said that the current system is great. All I said is that I'd rather have it than socialism. So many things we can fix easily about our system without going to socialism. And Obamacare is the worst of all worlds. Halfway socialism while still keeping insurance companies. Please tell me how that makes sense.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, oddly enough, basically the model for the current guaranteed-issue reform (scheduled to become operational in January 2014), despite the fact that the governor who passed it doesn't want to take any credit for it.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

  1865 called. Said that States lost.
  2006 called. Gov. Romney supports ObamaCare^WRomneyCare.
  2012 Supreme Court called as well. Said ObamaCare was constitutional.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bi…

Then please, for the sake of the public good, do the following: Don't drive on the roads. Do put out your own fires if you house catches fire. Do hire private police for your security. Don't use public transportation. Don't use the Internet (including HN). Don't use, or have your children use public schooling. Do pay completely, without subsidy or federal grant, for all your higher education. Pay for a septic tank if…

You're right. Clearly because I don't want socialism it means I want 100% anarchy and no government whatsoever. That doesn't follow at all. You also added several things in there that the government doesn't provide, so I'm just really confused by this comment.

(side note I could probably get by without almost everything on this list except for food and roads. I'm disregarding internet, as the gov't doesn't provide that).

Don't drive on the roads. -do want roads, those the gov't should provide

Do put out your own fires if you house catches fire. - i have a sprinkler system installed so it's unlikely I'll need them. I suspect I could get private insurance to cover this though in a free-market. pay small money into pool (just like taxes) and we can all have firemen without your government. Also, if you don't live in a city, it is very possible that there are no firefighters who will come to your house.

Do hire private police for your security. - Police are nice for keeping things relatively civil, but most of the time they are minutes away when you have a few seconds of need. They come and do paperwork about the thing that happened to you that they couldn't stop.

Don't use public transportation. - i don't

Don't use the Internet (including HN). - since when did the gov't start providing me internet? I should really stop paying charter to provide it for me.

Don't use, or have your children use public schooling. - i think our public schools are pathetic, and I'm seriously considering home schooling.

Do pay completely, without subsidy or federal grant, for all your higher education. - i did. I probably helped pay for yours though with my taxes too.

Pay for a septic tank if available, or do not use public sewers. - no problem. will do.

Don't drink water from city water. - city water mostly sucks. I have to filter it anyways, I might as well filter water from a well.

Better yet, don't drink water at all: EPA endorses cleaner environmental health. - I could do with less from the EPA.

Don't eat food unless you grew it: All food is inspected by FDA. - I could also do with less FDA. Turns out Kroger has a vested interest in not poisoning me. It's likely I'll start going to Publix if they do.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

why the downvote? there is nothing in the constitution about the federal government providing healthcare. Ergo, based on the 10th amendment it is the right of the states. Massachusetts can do whatever they want. The federal government cannot.

Everybody already knows about the existence of a "states' rights" opinion on health care, and it's not consistent with Republicans' ideology on the subject. You were downvoted accordingly for making statements that have no basis in reality. You should reconsider believing or sharing your own opinions in the future.
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