Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite • Hacker News Board

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#131

Post by _delirium » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 3:51 AM UTC

bhb916 wrote: post #62

lsc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, if you are using the "build a prototype, get investment, move from there" model... that's fine. Personally, I think bootstrapping, taking no outside investment at all is also a completely reasonable model (and often ends up with a more sustainable business, and can be executed by people that lack the sales skills to get investment) If you are bootstrapping? 18 months is not a reasonable period of time to get so…

My company bootstrapped and we just initiated a group policy 13 months after our doors opened. This is, of course, anecdotal, but I think it's very well in the realm of possibility. Regardless, even in states like CA high-deductible plans (i.e. catastrophic care plans) are very much attainable both by small businesses and by individuals. Contractors in the US get hit with a fairly sizable self-employment tax. This ta…

So you think entrepreneurship is solely about people's personal entertainment?

Incidentally, do you pay for your own police force, or are you taking money from your neighbors to pay for your property-owning itch?

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#132

Post by _delirium » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 3:56 AM UTC

useful wrote: post #107

It costs $121/month for 100% coinsurance, no copay, and a 3000 yearly maximum cost in network. Can no one spend <10% of their income on their health?

Maybe if you're in your 20s and were lucky enough to have no childhood health conditions. In the real world, that isn't the case for many people. How much does individual health insurance cost if you were born with a congenital heart defect? Or if you were diagnosed as a child with autism?

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#133

Post by ktizo » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:05 AM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #59

_delirium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries bill for emergency stays. US emergency rooms definitely send bills, even if it's acute live-saving treatment. Even Canada, which has national healthcare for residents, will bill nonresidents who visit an ER. If you're from another country, you may get away with just not paying one of those bills, because if it's life-saving care they have to provide it before verifying you can pay. But they'll still tr…

You're still stuck with a bill, if you're a foreigner. They will treat you, like they will in most of the world. But you're still stuck with a bill afterwards. Also, unless my memory is totally off, each country has to pay up for EHIC, depending on who used what, and visa versa. So the cost should be evened out. Edit, because I cannot reply to you later down: I think we have a different view on what emergency medical…

You're still stuck with a bill, if you're a foreigner.

In the UK you are not, purely because they don't do the accounting that way in the first place as it would cost a lot of extra money to keep track of billing when no-one is being individually billed, so there is no bill to bill.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#134

Post by lox » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:06 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #118

olefoo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but, europeans generally see a healthcare provider more often and are more often diagnosed before they reach an acute stage. If you look at the graphs [1][2][3] that compare per capita expenditures per country with life expectancy per country. You'll see that they are generally getting equivalent or better outcomes at less than half the cost. And I can tell you that for my own part, even with health insurance, t…

Life expectancy is a poor proxy for health care effectiveness. By some methodologies, once you take out things like auto accidents, the United States snaps right back into first place in those rankings. Meanwhile, in disease-by-disease rankings, the US routinely leads. We do spend a lot for health care in the US, and we probably aren't realizing comparable value, but it is also probably not true that the actual quali…

Why is it a poor proxy? What would be a better one?

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#135

Post by jasonlotito » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:08 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #103

jasonlotito wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Canada for 10 years. I left precisely because of the awful healthcare being denied my son, despite laws stating to the contrary. My son suffers because so-called medical professionals sat on his case (Autism) for more than a year, with excuse after excuse, problem after problem. Some of the people blamed budget issues, others lied, others through sheer incompetence. I'm not exaggerating. There is nothing t…

Canada is a single-payer health care system. A common problem with single-payer health care systems is access to specialty care. It is indeed tragic to care for someone you know is sick while being stuck in multi-week delays waiting for a doctor who can actually help. It's also true that this is not one of America's big problems. Now, our specialists will bankrupt you, that's true, but you will actually get to see th…

> It is indeed tragic to care for someone you know is sick while being stuck in multi-week delays waiting for a doctor who can actually help.

It's not even waiting that is the problem. The quality is down right shoddy at best. Doctors flat out lied to us. We had doctors recommending committing our son to a home because "you can get on with your life." At one point, we had our son get approved after waiting 6 months to get into a special program that would help him. That was a wonderful day.

That afternoon, I shit you not, we get a call again from the same place, and they say "Oh, I'm sorry, we can't take him. He has autism, and we don't take children with autism."

I understand their are problems with the US system. I'm not blind to the issues. But people like to prop up Canada's system as something that works.

It was child abuse. It's hard to explain. I firmly believe that Quebec should shut down it's autism support, and stop pretending to care. At least then parents will know they had better leave. Every day makes a difference. If I'd known earlier, if I hadn't waited...

Years. Years of waiting. A system that requires that is a failure, pitiful, evil system.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#136

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:09 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #124

whirlycott1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One solution (which obviously won't for everybody): live in Massachusetts. We have excellent health insurance plans available here: https://www.mahealthconnector.org/ I'm using one now.

That is, oddly enough, basically the model for the current guaranteed-issue reform (scheduled to become operational in January 2014), despite the fact that the governor who passed it doesn't want to take any credit for it.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#137

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:13 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #82

A young coworker had an ATV accident. It was ugly, but not so bad that they weren't on IM within days talking about work. Total bill: just shy of $100,000. A friend's son had appendicitis. Uneventful appendicitis. Total bill: neighborhood of $35,000. Add to this: tens of millions of people are, despite any debilitating medical conditions or even better-than-even likelihood of incurring anomalous medical expenses at a…

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bill WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. The government getting involved isn't the solution.

Just think, emergency rooms that function with the efficiency of the DMV. Woo Hoo

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#138

Post by lox » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:16 AM UTC

tghw wrote: post #102

rkischuk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... MRSA Staph Infection... what is the cost to correctly diagnose? And what is the cost of the antibiotics? I'm not a doctor, but most non-boutique antibiotics are dirt cheap. I didn't intend to trivialize the illness. I more meant that this could happen to _anyone_. And if this is the cost for things that can happen to anyone, we have a real problem on our hands. Much like it's a problem that a basic, no-complica…

From the article, at least a two day hospital stay, IV, antibiotics, the time of the nurses checking in on him, the doctor(s) rounding on him, and the orderlies and cleaning staff keeping the place clean. Staying in the hospital is not cheap.

In Australia, at a private hospital, it's around $800 a night from memory.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#139

Post by Niten » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:22 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #137

tptacek wrote: post #82

A young coworker had an ATV accident. It was ugly, but not so bad that they weren't on IM within days talking about work. Total bill: just shy of $100,000. A friend's son had appendicitis. Uneventful appendicitis. Total bill: neighborhood of $35,000. Add to this: tens of millions of people are, despite any debilitating medical conditions or even better-than-even likelihood of incurring anomalous medical expenses at a…

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bi…

It's hard to take comments like this seriously when the private American health care system has worse outcomes and more than double the cost of numerous socialized systems.

You can blindly chant "government isn't the solution" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it undeniably is the solution in a large number of countries with functional health systems.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#140

Post by galadriel » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 4:28 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #136

_delirium wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, oddly enough, basically the model for the current guaranteed-issue reform (scheduled to become operational in January 2014), despite the fact that the governor who passed it doesn't want to take any credit for it.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

Wait, but two post above you said that government involvement is bad because it will turn emergency rooms to DMV. I thought state of Massachusetts runs the DMV, and hence they would be utterly unqualified to give health care? Am I getting something wrong?