The United States withdraws from UNESCO • Hacker News Board

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#891

Post by kennywinker » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:57 PM UTC

exe34 wrote: post #760

adhamsalama wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must be your bubble because I see thin starving kids every time I open social media.

But not Bashar Taleb?

Have you ever watched the TV show Alone? It’s an outdoor survival competition reality show. In it people regularly end up medically evacuated due to starvation or malnutrition.

Sometimes you can tell by looking at someone’s face they’re starving - but usually you can’t. Usually it’s when they strip down for the periodic medical exam when you can actually tell how starved they are.

Do you want a recent photo of this man, or do you want him to strip naked for you to judge his weight loss?

Why is one man stripping naked for you something you need before you’ll believe the hundreds of different people saying that people are starving?

Like, seriously. What if he’s lying? He could be, of course - but would you then believe everyone is lying? Or what if he’s telling the truth about weight loss, and you see proof - will you then turn around and say well yeah but he’s probably just starving himself for attention?

You need proof one man is starving to believe hundreds?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#892

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:57 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #886

ceejayoz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no context that justifies UNESCO focussing on criticism of Israel's self defence, as opposed to focussing on Hamas's attrocity that started the war (or Putin etc) Sure there is. Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. > There is no context that justifies UNESCO rebranding Jewish holy places as “Palestinian World…

> Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. Firstly, I hope we can agree that estimates by the designated terrorist (and Iranian proxy militia) government of Gaza, Hamas, cannot be relied on. Secondly, are you aware that 2 million German citizens were killed in WW2, versus only 70,000 UK citizens? By your logic, should we ha…

> Firstly, I hope we can agree that estimates by the designated terrorist (and Iranian proxy militia) government of Gaza, Hamas, cannot be relied on.

No, we can't. They've historically been pretty accurate. Independent studies come up with similar numbers (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02009-8 ; https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... ; https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...) and a look at the debris left makes it clear many people are dying.

Israel disputes the proportion of civilians to some extent, but not that tens of thousands are dead. Last year: https://www.voanews.com/a/israel-publishes-new-civilian-deat... "Earlier this month, Israel's government offered its first estimate of the operation's death toll, saying its troops have killed 14,000 terrorists and 16,000 civilians." That's 10x what Hamas killed on Oct 7, and that's a year old estimate from an involved source with motivations to keep that number low.

> Secondly, are you aware that 2 million German citizens were killed in WW2, versus only 70,000 UK citizens?

In both cases, the counts indicate technological / logistical / war outcome differences. They don't automatically infer morality of those deaths, and comparing the era of saturation bombing to that of precision weaponry is pretty desperate of you.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#893

Post by tekknik » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

scottydelta wrote: post #586

rafram wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s one big club, and we’re not in it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here, but like it or not, most Americans do support Israel.

Just like how Ted Cruz believes that Bible says that they have to defend Israel. Now if you ask him where exactly in Bible? He will deflect because his Bible is the American Evangelicals. So much for separation of state and religion.

Numbers 24:9 is the verse that states that those who support and help Israel will be blessed and those that curse it cursed.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#894

Post by f33d5173 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:03 PM UTC

amendegree wrote: post #845

dragonwriter wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Well, Israel's been committing a genocide for, conservatively, nearly 60 years, so, yeah, its probably a suprise to them that after that long of not having an adverse effect on US public support, that has changed.

Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their su…

The jews have now recovered their population numbers to where thy were prior to the holocaust. Therefore the holocaust was not a genocide. Thoughts?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#895

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:04 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #872

ceejayoz wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this were normal, Palestine would just be bombed to dust… That process is well on its way to completion. https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/destruction-hom... "Over 15 months of all-out war on Gaza have left 92 percent of housing units and about 70 percent of all structures destroyed or damaged." > Yes, that is bad. But that doesn't remove the other thing. Certainly. Both are bad! Both should make you…

> That process is well on its way to completion. That's not bombing. Bombing is generally from the air. I mean they went house to house and tried to clear things out and airdropped warnings at much greater risk to personnel than bombing. To minimise civilian casualties. Now the reality of that is painful still, because war is painful, but their strategy clearly wasn't just to level Gaza or they'd have never done it t…

> That's not bombing.

Oh, come on. Argue in good faith, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_St...

"By October 2024, Israel said it bombed 40,000 locations in the Gaza Strip (which is 360 km2). By one estimate, as of April 2024 the bomb tonnage dropped on Gaza was more than 70,000 tonnes, surpassing the combined bomb tonnage dropped on Dresden, Hamburg, and London in World War II."

That is, on average, almost a ton of explosives per acre. (360 square kilometers is ~89k acres)

> So don't bring the other thing up when I mention the first thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSGkogquwo

> The pro-Palestinian take is the most credulous one…

The assertions upthread were a lie, which I've demonstrated. You were credulous about them.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#896

Post by dlubarov » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:06 PM UTC

f33d5173 wrote: post #894

amendegree wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their su…

The jews have now recovered their population numbers to where thy were prior to the holocaust. Therefore the holocaust was not a genocide. Thoughts?

The (arguably) relevant metric is population change during a purported genocide, not afterward.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#897

Post by cbeach » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:08 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #886

ceejayoz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no context that justifies UNESCO focussing on criticism of Israel's self defence, as opposed to focussing on Hamas's attrocity that started the war (or Putin etc) Sure there is. Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. > There is no context that justifies UNESCO rebranding Jewish holy places as “Palestinian World…

> Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. Firstly, I hope we can agree that estimates by the designated terrorist (and Iranian proxy militia) government of Gaza, Hamas, cannot be relied on. Secondly, are you aware that 2 million German citizens were killed in WW2, versus only 70,000 UK citizens? By your logic, should we ha…

> In both cases, the counts indicate technological / logistical / war outcome differences. They don't automatically infer morality of those deaths, and comparing the era of saturation bombing to that of precision weaponry is pretty desperate of you.

It certainly indicates war outcome in both cases (Germany and Gaza). Both these antagonists started wars which they then lost.

One major logistical difference is the propensity of Hamas to use its citizens as human shields. It's on record calling on its citizens to "bare their chests" against Israel, as it is wise to the fact that the World is watching, and there are plenty of Westerners on the Left who would be useful idiots to the Hamas agenda (which is the annihilation of Israel, as stated in the Hamas Charter).

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#898

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:15 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #897

cbeach wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. Firstly, I hope we can agree that estimates by the designated terrorist (and Iranian proxy militia) government of Gaza, Hamas, cannot be relied on. Secondly, are you aware that 2 million German citizens were killed in WW2, versus only 70,000 UK citizens? By your logic, should we ha…

> In both cases, the counts indicate technological / logistical / war outcome differences. They don't automatically infer morality of those deaths, and comparing the era of saturation bombing to that of precision weaponry is pretty desperate of you. It certainly indicates war outcome in both cases (Germany and Gaza). Both these antagonists started wars which they then lost. One major logistical difference is the prop…

> One major logistical difference is the propensity of Hamas to use its citizens as human shields.

The IDF HQ is across the street from a shopping mall; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya.

(Iran targeted this area, which resulted in civilian casualties. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2025/06/13/12israel-iran-rep... / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marganit_Tower)

> It certainly indicates war outcome in both cases (Germany and Gaza). Both these antagonists started wars which they then lost.

Hamas and the Nazis (and the Iranian regime) suck.

Indiscriminately killing civilians also sucks. It sucks even more in the era of modern precision weaponry.

This really isn't as complicated a position as you seem to think.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#899

Post by scantron4 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:19 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #645

selimthegrim wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which site in Yugoslavia did they bomb?

NATO bombings damaged a Kosovo (post Yugoslavia) church in 1999 that was later added to UNESCO in 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gra%C4%8Danica_Monastery

So its a time traveling crime?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#900

Post by amendegree » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 3:19 PM UTC

f33d5173 wrote: post #894

amendegree wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their su…

The jews have now recovered their population numbers to where thy were prior to the holocaust. Therefore the holocaust was not a genocide. Thoughts?

This is both categorically false and completely irrelevant.

The first claim is that genocide has been happening since 1948, the second claim is that it has increased in intensity in the last two years, both claims can be completely dismissed as fabrications by simply looking at the population growth of the nation that is supposedly being killed.

I honestly don’t know why you would bring up the fact that the Jewish population is climbing after the eponymous genocide was attempted.