The United States withdraws from UNESCO • Hacker News Board

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#881

Post by mola » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:32 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #749

mola wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about…

> Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But people do suggest russia should give back the territory they’ve taken by force. That’s most (if not all depending on your take) of israel. Historically - in my opinion in the wake of ww2 a jewish state should have been carved out of germany, rather than england giving away land that wasn’t theirs to give away. So in a…

I supportthe two state solution.

Alas hamas killed that one in The 90s when they decided to send suicide bombers to Israeli busses during the peace process that Israel initiated.

Also Israel accepted the two state solution in 1948, alas all Arab countries decided to attack the newly idndependent country.

Saying "we" stole the land is a bit odd. The arabs leaving in Israel didn't call themselves Palestinians until after 1948.

Israel is not in the Arab peninsula, arabs living here came from there, hence they are Arabs.

I still support their right to their national claim. But pretending it's some ancient construct that "we" stole from is not historical. Palestinian nationalism is a modern construct.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#882

Post by aprilthird2021 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:43 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #865

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are other genocides that are happening (Myanmar for example) that don't cause this reaction Because the biggest world superpower that claims to be all about "freedom" is the sponsor of this one, not a rogue, sanctioned state somewhere

Why does that matter though? Is Genocide ONLY bad when capitalism involved?

I didn't mention capitalism? I mentioned it is one of the only genocides where attempts to sanction and hold the perpetrators to account are failing on a global level. Myanmar, on the other hand, is under heavy international sanctions.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#883

Post by mola » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:46 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #735

mola wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about…

Who has the right to exist in that area? The people that already lived there and their offspring, who are now refugees in Gaza. People do have the right to form their own states, but on land they already own legally and ethically, not when you colonize land already occupied by others. I did not call for the end of Israel as a project, I do disagree with it's creation, considering how it turned out, especially since i…

You are severely lacking in history.

You domknownthat Palestinians are mostly Arabs and not native to the region.

The Israeli founders accepted the UN partition resolution. all Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy and create their pan Arabian fantasy.

In the 90s Israel initiated the peace process and gave self rule to the Palestinians with an end goal to create a Palestinian state. Hamas decided to send suicide bombers to bomb Israeli busses killing thousands.

This caused a massive shift right in israeli politics. And gave power to those saying we can't afford to give land. I don't agree with them.

Your revisionism is abhorrent.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#884

Post by kennywinker » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:47 PM UTC

laurent_du wrote: post #877

adhamsalama wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's ignore the blatant lie, are you implying obese people can't be starved? Wild take ngl.

I am not implying, I am literally saying that. Obese people can easily live for six months to one year without suffering health issues. Gaza has a clean water problem, not a food problem. And what's the blatant lie? Gaza inhabitants are not suffering from obesity at incredibly high rates? Is Wikipedia lying about this? If you have credible figures indicating that Wikipedia is wrong on this matter, I would be very int…

> A meta-analysis study in Middle East countries found that the prevalence of obesity and overweight was 21.17 and 33.14%, respectively (9). A recent survey conducted in Palestine concluded that the prevalence of overweight and obesity is 23.6 and 19.5% in the Gaza Strip

Norm is 33.14% overweight and 21.17% obese, palestine was (before 2021) 23.6% overweight and 19.5% obese.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9998069/#B10

So, no, Gazans are not suffering from obesity at “incredibly high rates”.

Malnutrition and obesity can also co-exist in the same person at the same time. Most of the articles on obesity in gaza point this out.

> Obese people can easily live for six months to one year without suffering health issues

Jesus christ. Are you really saying forced starvation is ok because some people have the fat reserves to not die from it??

Even if all the obese people in gaza had the fat reserves to last 6 months - which they don’t - you’re still giving the thumbs up to starving the other 80.5% of the population.

Not to mention, aid has been blocked since march so the other 19.5% has two months left of their supposed six months of “no health consequences”.

And for the record, I am so fucking disgusted I had to write this.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#885

Post by mola » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:53 PM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #797

mola wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about…

If the only way that Israel can continue to exist is as an apartheid state where a large proportion of the population has to be forcibly kept in a status with no political rights, or else expelled or killed altogether, then yes, Israel doesn't deserve to exist. Now, I don't know whether that is true. It seems to be the argument that the Israeli government and the right-wing majority of its population are making now -…

If Israel is alien to the region, so are Arabs which is what Palestinians are.

That's nonsense.

The Jewish people have a long (2000years) of calling Israel territory as home. Does it mean I deny the Palestinians national claim, no. But it sure as hell mean Jews have a claim atleast as much as Arab immigrants and conquerers

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#886

Post by cbeach » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 12:54 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #67

cbeach wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> There is no context that justifies UNESCO focussing on criticism of Israel's self defence, as opposed to focussing on Hamas's attrocity that started the war (or Putin etc) Sure there is. Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow. > There is no context that justifies UNESCO rebranding Jewish holy places as “Palestinian World…

> Only one is still actively happening, and it's the one that's killed 20-60x as many civilians, depending on whose estimates you follow.

Firstly, I hope we can agree that estimates by the designated terrorist (and Iranian proxy militia) government of Gaza, Hamas, cannot be relied on.

Secondly, are you aware that 2 million German citizens were killed in WW2, versus only 70,000 UK citizens?

By your logic, should we have chastised the UK, prevented it winning the war (which Germany started), and allowed Germany to continue to invade its neighbours and exterminate Jewish people?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#887

Post by Workaccount2 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:52 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #856

Workaccount2 wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can take the west bank too if they want. Again, Palestine has no cards left. They are powerless and have no friends with power. They completely failed at diplomacy over the last 50 years and completely failed at building an economy (other than weapons manufacturing). They lost and lost badly. They can go regroup somewhere else and try to capture the land again in the future. But for now they should stop using th…

They do have a card to play: expose the savage, heart of darkness in Tel Aviv to the world. My guess is this will lead to a global revolt against Israel that will be impossible to overcome in today’s globalized world. Israel cannot be a pariah state and survive in the same way that North Korea can.

We have a bunch of liberal first world children screaming online about it*, but that's not going to do much. They were unaware of the conflict 5 years ago when they were 15. The people who move things know the story going way further back than Oct 8 2023. The adults are sick of the conflict and hold no more respect for Israel than they do for Palestine. Both sides have egregious violations, and tallying them is a futile and time wasting ordeal.

So the adults are ready for this to end. There is no choice winner, so the winner will just be the one who is stronger. The same way every other war has been decided.

*Granted, the Muslim world obviously has huge support for Palestine. But it's in word only. Palestine's "allies" pretty much said "Good luck bro" and then closed their doors. Probably because Palestine has the diplomatic skills of a toddler. Don't be fooled, Israel won this with diplomacy. Making friends with the right people and being a good friend to them will carry you far.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#888

Post by amendegree » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:26 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #406

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it was a Democrat president enforcing laws passed by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 1990 and 1994, under at least one Democrat president. There are no real "sides" when it comes to the U.S. and Israel. Every party bends the knee and kisses the wall. It’s one big club, and we’re not in it.

Excuses and explanations can feel the same. I do not intend this to be an excuse, but a partial explanation. Before the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, there was a feeling of a possibility of peace in some form; in this context, those laws could be viewed as the stick of a carrot and stick approach. At this point in time, you can make your own determination about how that has worked out.

Because Israel alone bears all the responsibility for the lack of peace in the region… it’s not like these people are perpetually looking for war

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#889

Post by amendegree » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #854

amendegree wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their su…

@grok what is the Nakba

Answer: a war of genocide and extermination attempted by 6+ Arab/muslim majority states against the nascent nation of Israel, fortunately for all involved they completely failed and in fact ended up losing land. While they did succeed in ethnically cleansing the Jews from any land that did end up under Jordan and Egyptian occupation, and they did expel (ie ethnically cleanse) Jews from most Muslim majority countries, they failed in their overarching goal of finishing Hitler’s work of exterminating all Jews.

Certain morally degenerate groups see this failure (of killing all Jews) as an absolute catastrophe and thus name it the Nakhba.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#890

Post by amendegree » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

austin-cheney wrote: post #875

ActorNightly wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what I mean about seeing things from one side. >but how does that extend to the West Bank? When your country history includes all of your surrounding neighbors going to war to try to exterminate you, and that sentiment hasn't changed, you are going to be probably very expansionist. Not that the west bank settlements are morally right and they certainly don't help the cause, but the actions are somewhat unders…

> Again, try to be rational. Is it tribalism, or do they just want a future where citizens don't have to worry about terrorist attacks or getting rocketed anymore? That’s exactly what Milosevic argued to justify attacking his neighbors. We have to get them before they get us I am being rational and cannot imagine any justification for the complete eradication of Gaza or the illegal settlements in the West Bank. If th…

Illegal according to who? The concept of legal doesn’t apply to nation states. “Legal” presupposes an enforcement framework and process which simply doesn’t exist as it applies to sovereign countries.

But more to the point you can’t claim to be rational while using terms like “the complete eradication of Gaza”. The population in Gaza has grown since the war started.

Meanwhile in southern Syria the Druze are actually being exterminated by self-proclaimed jihadis (and Palestinian “refugees”) and the whole world is turning a blind eye while Israel desperately tries to prevent a larger catastrophe. Now the Syrian Druze are requesting to be annexed by Israel and to be under IDF protection. You don’t care about Palestinians, you just hate Jews.