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The United States withdraws from UNESCO

state.gov

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Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#871

Post by fanwood »

fartfeatures wrote: post #61
fanwood wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The amount of Argumentum ad Nazium / Reductio ad Hitlerum going around at the moment is getting really tiresome. Can we stick to the actual issues instead of invoking Nazis? It’s not helping the discussion.

The Trump regime is the modern equivalent to the Nazi regime. Just because we don't get to see through the perspective of history doesn't mean it doesn't share all the same characteristics. The only difference with Nazi Germany is that the current democratic institutions in the United States are somewhat stronger than the ones in Germany in the 1930s, which prevent the Trump regime to gain full power. But they have been systematically eroded in the last few years (and especially in the last 6 months), and eventually they will fail too.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#872

Post by philipallstar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #339
philipallstar wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An Israeli organization calling itself The Civil Front has sparked controversy on social media by producing a song in which children fete the “destruction” in Gaza and say “nothing will be left there” in a year’s time." That sounds like extreme Israelis, or the average Palestinian. If this were normal, Palestine would just be bombed to dust > "How Israel’s Army Uses Palestinians as Human Shields in Gaza": https://w…

> If this were normal, Palestine would just be bombed to dust… That process is well on its way to completion. https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/destruction-hom... "Over 15 months of all-out war on Gaza have left 92 percent of housing units and about 70 percent of all structures destroyed or damaged." > Yes, that is bad. But that doesn't remove the other thing. Certainly. Both are bad! Both should make you…

> That process is well on its way to completion.

That's not bombing. Bombing is generally from the air. I mean they went house to house and tried to clear things out and airdropped warnings at much greater risk to personnel than bombing. To minimise civilian casualties. Now the reality of that is painful still, because war is painful, but their strategy clearly wasn't just to level Gaza or they'd have never done it this way.

> Both should make you angry.

So don't bring the other thing up when I mention the first thing. You address the first thing instead of this whataboutism.

> More skeptical?

The pro-Palestinian take is the most credulous one, most likely to be adopted by children and young adults. I'm not saying it's wrong for that reason, but you absolutely need to be a sceptic to even consider Israel's position at all.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#874

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #424
3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an asshole is one thing. But thinking you can be an asshole by proxy by becoming an asshole's victim, is something else entirely.

They're not assholes by proxy, they're also assholes. They were before, and they will continue to be after. They're seeking maximum asshole alignment and some recognize that while supporting the primary asshole may be causing them pain, it's lesser than the pain of the people they've always wanted to hurt.

Well, we disagree on our asshole classification. To me a true experienced asshole notices when another asshole is about to swindle them. There is some inexplicable tendency for swindlers to get swindled, but that's probably more at the periphery. Not sure if those qualify as assholes. I'll have to think about it.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#875

Post by austin-cheney »

ActorNightly wrote: post #864
austin-cheney wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call bullshit. If you use your imagination hard enough then just maybe you could explain the military action in Gaza as warfare… but how does that extend to the West Bank? There is no warfare in the West Bank, but there are Israeli settlers murdering Palestinians without consequences while stealing land in illegal settlements. > Israel is forced Again, that’s bullshit. Nobody is forcing Israel to be an asshole to t…

Exactly what I mean about seeing things from one side. >but how does that extend to the West Bank? When your country history includes all of your surrounding neighbors going to war to try to exterminate you, and that sentiment hasn't changed, you are going to be probably very expansionist. Not that the west bank settlements are morally right and they certainly don't help the cause, but the actions are somewhat unders…

> Again, try to be rational. Is it tribalism, or do they just want a future where citizens don't have to worry about terrorist attacks or getting rocketed anymore?

That’s exactly what Milosevic argued to justify attacking his neighbors. We have to get them before they get us

I am being rational and cannot imagine any justification for the complete eradication of Gaza or the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

If this is, after all, only about safety and security then why isn’t Israel annexing those people into citizenship? Rationally speaking it would eliminate most of the domestic threat simultaneously legally qualify the West Bank settlements. Again, it really appears Israel would rather have tribalism than security.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#876

Post by inemesitaffia »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #854
amendegree wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their su…

@grok what is the Nakba

In his book Ma'na al-Nakba (The Meaning of the Disaster), Constantin Zureiq described the Arab defeat not just as a military loss, but as a civilizational setback. He believed the Arab states had been unprepared, disorganized, and overconfident, and that their failure to prevent the establishment of Israel revealed deeper problems in Arab society—like a lack of modern institutions, unity, and strategic thinking.

i.e the failure to prevent Israel existing.

From the River to the sea Palestine will be Arab indeed

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#877

Post by laurent_du »

adhamsalama wrote: post #748
laurent_du wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obesity rate in Gaza is among the largest in the world. Let's stop pretending everyone is starving.

Let's ignore the blatant lie, are you implying obese people can't be starved? Wild take ngl.

I am not implying, I am literally saying that. Obese people can easily live for six months to one year without suffering health issues. Gaza has a clean water problem, not a food problem. And what's the blatant lie? Gaza inhabitants are not suffering from obesity at incredibly high rates? Is Wikipedia lying about this? If you have credible figures indicating that Wikipedia is wrong on this matter, I would be very interested to see them and I would change my opinion on the "starvation" question immediately. I find it weird that you are immediately accusing me of lying instead of assuming that I am wrong in good faith, let alone thinking that you may in fact be wrong.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#878

Post by crabbone »

kennywinker wrote: post #848
crabbone wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, children in Gaza, just like in many other war-torn places need help. The problem is that UNICEF doesn't just provide help. It feels entitled to come up with resolutions that put the blame on one of the parties in the conflict. They aren't military experts. They don't honestly know how the situation came to be the way it is... they shouldn't be talking about it. Because, what happens is that while they are…

> this is propaganda. There's no way to substantiate this claim. 1. Israel blocks aid agencies besides their own from accessing gaza. This is undisputed fact. 2. All evidence from doctors and reporters on the ground suggests that people are starving. Videos of people rioting over food, also pretty solid evidence people are starving. 3. While it is possible “hamas” is stealing food and not sharing - this is a problem…

> Israel blocks aid agencies besides their own from accessing gaza. This is undisputed fact.

You are who thinks this is a fact. But it isn't. The aid is being delivered to Gaza. A bunch of international organizations are there, cooking meals, distributing supplies etc. Not only Israeli agencies participate in aid delivery. For example WCK is still there. Israel, legitimately, doesn't allow aid from organizations that feed it directly to Hamas. WCK isn't one of those, so they are allowed to operate there.

> While it is possible “hamas” is stealing food and not sharing - this is a problem easily solved by allowing in more fucking food.

It's not just possible, it's pretty much a given, since they used to be in charge of distribution. They shot people queuing for aid. They sold aid (which was reported by multiple news agencies). They stockpiled aid for their own fighters, which was acknowledged by the prisoners IDF took.

Allowing more food for Hamas will change nothing. They benefit from starvation crisis. It allows them to extort resources both domestically and internationally. So far, Gaza received a lot more aid than eg. South Sudan, and Gaza's population is about 1/5 of South Sudan.

> You seem happy to let people starve to death

Why are you getting so emotional over something I haven't said or implied? I'm not starving anyone to death. I live thousands of kilometers from the events at the moment. I have more information than you do about what's happening there because I used to live in the area and can read the news in the local languages / I know where to find such news, but that's about it.

> So where is the propaganda?

You just wrote it. Well, you didn't invent it, you simply mindlessly repeated it, but still.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#879

Post by micromacrofoot »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #874
micromacrofoot wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not assholes by proxy, they're also assholes. They were before, and they will continue to be after. They're seeking maximum asshole alignment and some recognize that while supporting the primary asshole may be causing them pain, it's lesser than the pain of the people they've always wanted to hurt.

Well, we disagree on our asshole classification. To me a true experienced asshole notices when another asshole is about to swindle them. There is some inexplicable tendency for swindlers to get swindled, but that's probably more at the periphery. Not sure if those qualify as assholes. I'll have to think about it.

I'm just talking about people who are angry and mean to the point that it's harmful to themselves

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#880

Post by kennywinker »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #637
kennywinker wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does UNESCO not recognize ukraine? What action would you like them to have taken to prevent deaths in ukrain? I called the US complicit, not unesco.

I know you did. I'm saying that, by your standards, UNESCO is complicit, because they are not doing enough to stop the war in Ukraine. (See other comments about how focused they are on Palestine as opposed to Ukraine.)

I don’t see other comments that say that, but it seems incorrect. They have done very little on palestine AND ukraine. They have released statements on both. That’s about all I can see.
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