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CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

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Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#111

Post by bigbadfeline »

joules77 wrote: post #87
guiriduro wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the problem is the MBAs and letting them run your company? Surely AI could do a better job than most MBAs? The knowledge requirement is lower, the reasoning and analytical capability lower, just learn a few frameworks and glib vacuous McKinsey-speak, have an AI produce those meaningless powerpoints instead of expensive suits if the C-suite really needs to see it (also candidates for replacement), then instead i…

MBAs or AI would make the same decisions as these are SYSTEMIC issues, which means its not up to individuals or orgs, but the entire system across the board has to change for fairer solutions to work. Why? Cuz this is not just about cross border diff in labor rates but also in interest rates, real estate/rent, corporate tax rates, forex rates, regulations, govt subsidies, energy costs etc etc. Sum it all up and the c…

> MBAs or AI would make the same decisions as these are SYSTEMIC issues

Correct.

> which means its not up to individuals or orgs, but the entire system across the board has to change... [but it's] hard to change the underlying calculus without global coordination.

That's the hard way, and I mean, the extremely hard way that will never happen. The core systemic issues are local to the US and if they cannot be changed locally, there's no hope for global coordination. The EU is in the same boat but it would be considerably easier for them to change if the US led the way.

Once we cannot hide behind the back of "global coordination", a major question arises, where is the systemic analysis of the US economy and who is responsible for it? If parties and judges cannot agree even on the question "Can the US executive branch regulate the economy", what hope is there for a proper systemic analysis, unencumbered by partisan and lobbying influence?

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#112

Post by monkeycantype »

f1shy wrote: post #28
monkeycantype wrote: post #24

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian…

>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law Where is the line between that and plain slavery?

I'm ont talking about anonomous people, I'm talking about remote-work collegues whose name I know. They were not slaves, they were absolutley paid wages, but not equivalent wages to local hires.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#113

Post by monkeycantype »

fennecbutt wrote: post #29
monkeycantype wrote: post #24

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian…

No, it would still not be great. Local options should always be preferred to protect local job markets. Any company only exists because they can do business locally, so they should support local or be burnt to the ground. I now live in the UK, when I got hired here they had to advertise my position to see if they could fill it locally before they could grant me a visa for it - this is the way.

I disagree, these are not anonymous people, but real work collegues that I enjoyed working with, who would love to be able to settle in Australia, and would make a great contribution to the country. Australia without post war migration would be a much duller place. The fact that companies use immigation as a lever against fair wages, doesn't mean that there are not also skills shortages in many areas. I don't think we should conflate that with the need to care for citizens, which I would rather we approach with fair tax systems, maybe some resource extraction royalties and using the increase tax income on vastly increased infrastructure and social spending.

Blaming immigrants instead of systematic explotation and inequality takes us down the disasterous Brexit path.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#114

Post by komali2 »

logicchains wrote: post #60
komali2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

1. The facts absolutely do support it, even Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada . Check the "Canada visible minority, aboriginal and Caucasian (assumed for 1981 to 2016) population as a percentage of the total population over time" chart there. The "Caucasian" proportion is down from 93.3% in 1981 to 69.8% in 2021 2. I defined white, as the skin looks white, not brown or darker. If you wan…

> 1. The facts absolutely do support it, even Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada . Check the "Canada visible minority, aboriginal and Caucasian (assumed for 1981 to 2016) population as a percentage of the total population over time" chart there. The "Caucasian" proportion is down from 93.3% in 1981 to 69.8% in 2021

No, you're making assumptions, you don't have a strong statistical argument here, you're just pointing at two numbers and saying "obviously this number that was once 93 and now 69 will one day be 49." Why not "one day 20?" Why not "One day 1%? 0%?" You've done nothing here but point at statistics and hand-wave.

2. Ok! let's take a look at the wikipedia definition of Caucasian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

> The Caucasian race (also Caucasoid,[a] Europid, or Europoid)[2] is an obsolete racial classification of humans based on a now-disproven theory of biological race.

Oh.

> If you want more specific: someone that 90+% of Canadian people would agree "looks like a white person".

I guarantee you will never get 90% agreement on someone's race in a consistent manner. This is absurd on its face. If people can't even figure out if Selena Gomez is white or not it's just not gonna work out. Also, still feeling a little racist over here to be trying to draw lines around "white."

3. Oh, then, there's nothing to discuss, right?

It's very obvious that people are saying it's bad, btw. You've got rayiner over there saying NYC and Jersey would be better if they'd stayed British and Dutch, and if it's not bad, why are you trying to argue about it at all? So, then, I'll ask you directly: you're perfectly fine if the majority of Canada is one day whatever it is you call non-white?

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#115

Post by komali2 »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #80
geraldwhen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on immigration rates and birth rates, Canada will be mostly Indian at some point in the future. The “future Canadian worker” is Indian.

When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. What I want to address about this comment is the implicit identity associations involved. It's clear that you're drawing an identity distinction between "Canadian" and "Indian". One of the things I've noticed about my own personal associations is that my…

> When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time.

I don't wish you to be uncomfortable, I'm happy to hear your comfort increases as you age. Still, maybe it's worth taking note that the kinds of people that believe in great replacement will never see you as anything other than Indian, same for your children.

You may feel less Indian and more something else, but others disagree.

Check out the first reply to your comment. Ignored everything you said about identity, just says "Gee, sounds like you brought the Caste system from India to Canada!"

Please keep a wary eye out. Reminds me of that Jubilee video that just came out with a bunch of fascists vs Mehdi Hasan - there's a couple non white conservatives there who watch supposed ideological allies say directly in front of them that they don't want non whites in the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-WJN3L5eo

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#116

Post by komali2 »

westpfelia wrote: post #73
komali2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The problem isnt just "oh no canadian no have job" the problem is people coming to canada on their version of the H1B visa and accepting jobs for 1/3 as much as canadians. Its the same problem as the US. Its not a racial problem its a socio-economic problem. These companies are trying to squeeze out every looney and tooney they can and the best way to do it is to replace your workforce with people who are willing to…

If they wanted to make an argument about economic exploitation of workers by capitalist institutions, they would have done so. Instead, once great replacement was brought it up, they began defending it as real. For them, and many, it's about race.

I'm with you - corporations absolutely exploit cheap labor at the expense of all else, including their "home nation" (a concept alien to corporations; corporations are money go up algorithms, nothing more). That corporations will pillage other countries for cheap labor is baked in to the fundament of capitalism and was often written about as something we'll need to figure out when we get to late-stage capitalism if we want to continue doing this system.

Let's not confuse racists as our ideological allies, though they may indeed be class allies that have unfortunately chosen a false reactionary explanation for the degradation of their country and comfort. Not just any false reactionary explanation, the oldest one in the book, so rote and cliche I'm honestly surprised people still fall for it. "It's not the billionaires that control the means of production and all aspects of society that are making your life worse, it's uh.. uh... the Je - oh we can't do that one anymore? The Bla- oh wait that's not allowed anymore either? The INDIANS and MEXICANS!!"

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#117

Post by Hyperboreanal »

monkeycantype wrote: post #113
fennecbutt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it would still not be great. Local options should always be preferred to protect local job markets. Any company only exists because they can do business locally, so they should support local or be burnt to the ground. I now live in the UK, when I got hired here they had to advertise my position to see if they could fill it locally before they could grant me a visa for it - this is the way.

I disagree, these are not anonymous people, but real work collegues that I enjoyed working with, who would love to be able to settle in Australia, and would make a great contribution to the country. Australia without post war migration would be a much duller place. The fact that companies use immigation as a lever against fair wages, doesn't mean that there are not also skills shortages in many areas. I don't think w…

[dead]

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#118

Post by kannanvijayan »

komali2 wrote: post #115
kannanvijayan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. What I want to address about this comment is the implicit identity associations involved. It's clear that you're drawing an identity distinction between "Canadian" and "Indian". One of the things I've noticed about my own personal associations is that my…

> When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. I don't wish you to be uncomfortable, I'm happy to hear your comfort increases as you age. Still, maybe it's worth taking note that the kinds of people that believe in great replacement will never see you as anything other than Indian, same for your ch…

> You may feel less Indian and more something else, but others disagree.

Oh I'm absolutely aware of this. The collectives around you trying to force an identity on you is one of the core tensions everyone faces. That tension manifests everywhere. Go back to India and the entire country tries to reimpose my identity as a Hindu.

There's baggage that comes with the pigment for sure.

The thing I want to point out is that there is a deep schism in the process of occurring - within the local "native" population as it were. The simple fact is that if you go talk to an urban progressive Canadian and ask them to choose between identifying with me and one of their less progressive born-in-Canada fairer skinned fellow citizens.. most will pick me. Because I can relate to them, and I talk like them, and I share their culture.

The problem with this reformulation of identity is that it's a threat to other identities that depend on numbers - like national identity. The people strongly tied to the old identity systems that depend on numbers for strength, see their framework eroding in significance, but they don't quite understand why. This leads to the scapegoating of various specific identities - whether that be immigrant or gender identity or sexual identity - which we can see happening now.

My identity as a cultural interloper is just one part of this. The explosion of social interest in gender identity and sexual identity, and the nationalist reaction against it, is part of the same trend. The fact that all of this and the reaction to all of this is happening globally - across countries, across continents.

We are in the middle of one of the biggest, most consequential upheavals in social order since the enlightenment. It's an incredible thing to witness (and yes, deeply unsettling at a personal level when you think of the consequences of this in terms of real harm to real people).

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#119

Post by Hyperboreanal »

komali2 wrote: post #116
westpfelia wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isnt just "oh no canadian no have job" the problem is people coming to canada on their version of the H1B visa and accepting jobs for 1/3 as much as canadians. Its the same problem as the US. Its not a racial problem its a socio-economic problem. These companies are trying to squeeze out every looney and tooney they can and the best way to do it is to replace your workforce with people who are willing to…

If they wanted to make an argument about economic exploitation of workers by capitalist institutions, they would have done so. Instead, once great replacement was brought it up, they began defending it as real. For them, and many, it's about race. I'm with you - corporations absolutely exploit cheap labor at the expense of all else, including their "home nation" (a concept alien to corporations; corporations are mone…

[dead]

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#120

Post by tomhow »

vachina wrote: post #9

[flagged]

You can't post comments containing racial/cultural stereotypes on HN. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future, particularly these ones:

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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