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CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

ia.acs.org.au

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Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#21

Post by simeonmiteff »

bananapub wrote: post #15
simeonmiteff wrote: post #13

This reporting is somewhat dishonest it fails to disclose ACS's vested interests... ACS has a nice government-granted monopoly on assessing the qualifications of work visa applicants (at significant cost) so anyone reducing the demand for IT worker visas (by off-shoring those jobs) is going to hurt ACS directly.

itym "assessing" that is also approximately all ACS does as far as I remember, they seem to never lobby for anything useful or go against the government for the exact same reason.

Thanks, corrected :-)

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#22

Post by benreesman »

energy123 wrote: post #14
mellosouls wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not simply outsourcing. Its using offshoring to hypocritically, dishonestly and deliberately trash native jobs and salaries, while (normally) maintaining those of the decision-makers. I'm not against realistic economics and open markets leading to a more balanced world, but this is just shark-toothed capitalism with contempt for individuals and the societies the organisations exist in.

That is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.

The point is not that companies hiring workers overseas is inherently bad.

The point is that companies rest on the infrastructure of society, they are only possible because of everything from the physical infrastructure of energy to the institutional infrastructure of courts and markets. These things are for the most part provided by the tax base in their home country. There are for the most part rules, laws, and norms about how much and what kind of economic activity must accrue back to the society that incubated and hosts the company.

Arbitraging those rules and norms to extract rents is not in general a social good.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#23

Post by soulofmischief »

kypro wrote: post #16
CommanderData wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if sarcasm but let's just obliterate the west's middle class. I'm sure all will be fine.

We did it for all the working class jobs though? Plus the media says all economists agree that protectionist policies are bad... I read that paying workers first-world salary to make things in first-world countries will increase product and service costs which is bad for economy. Apparently if the West can't compete with third-world labour it's better to just outsource the those uncompetitive manual labour and servic…

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy when we've used military and political intervention for centuries to create poor, low-wage countries in order to increase corporate profits. The entire state of this global economy is artificial and shaped by violence and collusion, and so the answers to our global economic problems are not necessarily axiomatic in a healthier, more fair environment.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#24

Post by monkeycantype »

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law. Immigration has been great for Australia in countless ways. I get really upset about they way large labor firms have co-opted as immigration a lever for corporations to undermine Australian working conditions and exploit Indian workers and I really don't know what to do about.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#25

Post by soulofmischief »

energy123 wrote: post #14
mellosouls wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not simply outsourcing. Its using offshoring to hypocritically, dishonestly and deliberately trash native jobs and salaries, while (normally) maintaining those of the decision-makers. I'm not against realistic economics and open markets leading to a more balanced world, but this is just shark-toothed capitalism with contempt for individuals and the societies the organisations exist in.

That is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.

If governments don't interfere, corporations and capitalists will. And they will not play fairly.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#26

Post by energy123 »

benreesman wrote: post #22
energy123 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.

The point is not that companies hiring workers overseas is inherently bad. The point is that companies rest on the infrastructure of society, they are only possible because of everything from the physical infrastructure of energy to the institutional infrastructure of courts and markets. These things are for the most part provided by the tax base in their home country. There are for the most part rules, laws, and nor…

You make a good argument that corporate tax havens should be prevented with policy.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#27

Post by energy123 »

soulofmischief wrote: post #25
energy123 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.

If governments don't interfere, corporations and capitalists will. And they will not play fairly.

Is this supposed to be an argument that governments should force companies to implement nativist hiring policies.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#28

Post by f1shy »

monkeycantype wrote: post #24

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian…

>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law

Where is the line between that and plain slavery?

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#29

Post by fennecbutt »

monkeycantype wrote: post #24

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian…

No, it would still not be great.

Local options should always be preferred to protect local job markets. Any company only exists because they can do business locally, so they should support local or be burnt to the ground.

I now live in the UK, when I got hired here they had to advertise my position to see if they could fill it locally before they could grant me a visa for it - this is the way.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#30

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

f1shy wrote: post #28
monkeycantype wrote: post #24

I worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian…

>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law Where is the line between that and plain slavery?

Slaves are not paid wages. There’s no need to resort to hyperbole here, the practices are abhorrent enough without it.
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