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CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

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Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#101

Post by nsingh2 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #88
komali2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thread you kicked off with this comment is one of my favorite I've read on HN in a while because it seems you've somehow gotten people to accidentally spout Marxist ideologies in the comments in their attempts to reconcile their belief in free market economics with the natural result of free market economics.

It also shows that the median HN member is extremely racist against indians and believes in the great replacement!

In general, it's the classic mistake of blaming people for societal-scale events instead of systems.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#102

Post by _DeadFred_ »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #98
yadaeno wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your system of drawing lines and forming “tribes” within social classes reminds me of the caste system.

It's playful language in observation, not prescriptive. The key distinction is that the caste system is impose on the individual, which when you think about it is actually more analogous to national or religious identity. These new fragmented identities are self-selected.

"If" you have the ability to meet the requirements to be in the self-selected group, sure. If you were just living the life everyone around you did previously, and suddenly were replaced by a new 'self-selected' group, you just moved into a caste without choosing to move away from the previous way the society they grew up in, were taught how to live within by their parents and society.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#103

Post by rayiner »

roenxi wrote: post #97
rayiner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries. In most existing societies, that patchwork follows normal distributions centered around recognizable points. This is obvious even in the U.S. Sure, you’ll meet chatty people in rural Oregon and curt people in rural Georgia. But if you’re culturally calibrated to make s…

If you bring in a bunch of immigrants it'll still have recognised centres to the distributions. That is literally how the US population was built. That is the thing about distributions, they form. It isn't possible to live in a place with other people and not start forming cultural links. There isn't a question here that different people have different cultures and migration changes culture. Indeed, if we assume that…

> If you bring in a bunch of immigrants it'll still have recognised centres to the distributions. That is literally how the US population was built.

Yes, but the center of the distributions along various axes will shift. To give an example: I grew up in Northern VA, which in the 1990s was quite WASPy. One aspect of that culture was austerity: it was hard to tell the people worth tens of millions apart from upper middle class doctors and lawyers. Now, the influx of immigrants from Asia and the Middle East has totally destroyed that norm. Relatively discrete brick mansions are being turn down and replaced with enormous and ostentatious displays of wealth.

> Indeed, if we assume that migrants migrate to places with cultures that promote success then change the culture that'd suggest that migrants cause mean-reversion for the worse.

That’s the concern. And it’s not just “success.” But orderliness, egalitarianism, democracy, etc. Most societies are much less successful on all those fronts than America. The only direction we can really go is down.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#104

Post by breitling »

Larrikin wrote: post #62
breitling wrote: post #34

Canadian banks, telecoms, and even retail chains, have been shamelessly replacing Canadian workers with Indians for decades. At this point, a plurality of our new immigrants come from one or two states in India. I would challenge you to go to a coffee shop in any major city and try to find a Canadian worker. Not sure what the future is for a Canadian worker, but it's bleak.

>I would challenge you to go to a coffee shop in any major city and try to find a Canadian worker. Why do Canadians put up with going to coffee shops that make you call into a call center in another country to order coffee?

For non-Canadians, this may be hard to comprehend how quickly the demographics have shifted, but the Indians are here in person. No need to send the order to a call center in India. We have that many.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#105

Post by breitling »

achrono wrote: post #68
rayiner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“In The Culture Transplant, Garett Jones documents the cultural foundations of cross-country income differences, showing that immigrants import cultural attitudes from their homelands—toward saving, toward trust, and toward the role of government—that persist for decades, and likely for centuries, in their new national homes. Full assimilation in a generation or two, Jones reports, is a myth. And the cultural traits…

> Toronto, where immigrants from the subcontinent grow up in enclaves surrounded by other immigrants. Citation please, because this is sweeping. Two questions to consider: 1. Are these enclaves representative of the subcontinent, or of a few over-represented communities that is actually a small fraction of the Indian subcontinental population? 2. Of all the people from the Indian subcontinent here, how many live in e…

>Citation please

Brampton, Thorncliff, Scarborough, etc. There's no shortage of immigrant heavy neighborhoods.

Heck, I'm in Durham and the demographics are changing rapidly.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#106

Post by [deleted] »

breitling wrote: post #105
achrono wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Toronto, where immigrants from the subcontinent grow up in enclaves surrounded by other immigrants. Citation please, because this is sweeping. Two questions to consider: 1. Are these enclaves representative of the subcontinent, or of a few over-represented communities that is actually a small fraction of the Indian subcontinental population? 2. Of all the people from the Indian subcontinent here, how many live in e…

>Citation please Brampton, Thorncliff, Scarborough, etc. There's no shortage of immigrant heavy neighborhoods. Heck, I'm in Durham and the demographics are changing rapidly.

[deleted]

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#107

Post by wat10000 »

bananapub wrote: post #85
wat10000 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there literally nobody in the country capable of doing what you do? Or were they just not willing to pay enough?

it is extremely routine for big companies to do this - all the fangs, big banks, etc, hire everyone they can in Britain on very pleasant pay packages and then hire overseas and pay immigrants the same amount.

Of course. And it's also a (deliberate, widely accepted) misunderstanding of basic economics. If you pay more you'll be able to hire more. Immigrants such as the one I'm replying to aren't typically hired because there are literally zero available locals with the skills. They're hired because they're cheaper, putting a ceiling on wages. Sometimes that ceiling can be quite high, but it's still there. "You can only bring someone into the country if you can't hire locally" is a polite fiction.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#108

Post by kannanvijayan »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #102
kannanvijayan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's playful language in observation, not prescriptive. The key distinction is that the caste system is impose on the individual, which when you think about it is actually more analogous to national or religious identity. These new fragmented identities are self-selected.

"If" you have the ability to meet the requirements to be in the self-selected group, sure. If you were just living the life everyone around you did previously, and suddenly were replaced by a new 'self-selected' group, you just moved into a caste without choosing to move away from the previous way the society they grew up in, were taught how to live within by their parents and society.

Oh I understand the problem. But the real issue isn't some external replacement, which is what tends to get focused on.

The real problem is that it's happening from the inside out, and it's happening everywhere. The reality is that Canadians of one stripe or another will identify more with an American of that same stripe, or a European or Asian origin person of that same stripe, than they will with somebody else of a different stripe of their own nationality.

That national association has been fading for a long time. And ironically, it's been driven along by American brand culture, which has done its level best to introduce people to aligning themselves on brand identities because that's a potent source of revenue.

A few generations have come and gone now with people slowly being trained to de-emphasize national identity.

And the internet came along and gave everyone access to an infinite regenerating pool of communities that people can align and re-align with.

This is a phase change in society and it's about as unstoppable as continental drift.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#109

Post by f1shy »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #30
f1shy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law Where is the line between that and plain slavery?

Slaves are not paid wages. There’s no need to resort to hyperbole here, the practices are abhorrent enough without it.

Where is the hyperbole? Is a question: where is the line to start calling it slavery. Obviously, for you far. Not for me.

If we want to go the pedantry way, this is the definition I found: “a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation.”

Emphasis in proper mine.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#110

Post by [deleted] »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #30
f1shy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law Where is the line between that and plain slavery?

Slaves are not paid wages. There’s no need to resort to hyperbole here, the practices are abhorrent enough without it.

[deleted]
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