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It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

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Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#71

Post by nollidge »

jdietrich wrote: post #53
nollidge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what your anecdote has to do with kindness. Presumably both Guttmann and his colleagues were all kind enough to want to reduce suffering; Guttmann just happened to be more correct about how to do so. Neither approach was more or less kind than the other, but one was more effective .

The effective approach was seen as deeply unkind, for reasons I elucidated - it resulted in a great amount of suffering in the short-term, for reasons which seemed futile to everyone but Guttmann. Kindness is essentially a static phenomenon - it can offer nothing more than a slight temporary improvement. Clever is permanent and revolutionary. Clever is what eliminates smallpox, clever is what puts airbags in cars, cl…

> The effective approach was seen as deeply unkind

What I'm getting at is you have an overly narrow definition of the word "kind". I would argue that Guttmann was actually MORE kind, regardless of how shortsighted people may have seen it.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#72

Post by momotomo »

derleth wrote: post #62
momotomo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of schools of thought that address the paradox of short term sufferings involvement in the overall scheme of kindness. Buddhism refers to it as "idiot kindness" or "idiot compassion" if you're kind in the short term without considering the long term value of it. True kindness is a long winded, structured and considerate thing. Feeding a junky drugs because it makes them feel better is an example of it…

> Feeding a junky drugs because it makes them feel better is an example of it done wrong OTOH, feeding a junky drugs because a cold-turkey withdrawal would kill them (as is sometimes the case with benzodiazepines and alcohol) is pretty much the standard of care. Diazepam, trade name Valium, is the withdrawal benzo of choice for both pill-heads and wet brains, as a matter of fact, but they do sometimes give IV alcohol…

Sorry, the example wasn't completely literal and a bit clumsy. Completely acknowledge the importance of those approaches and methadone programs in place that allow for a transitional pathway as well.

Your second paragraph is further into the balancing act I suppose, you could push people to full withdrawal symptoms but when we have the tech. on hand to manage the process, it raises a similar set of questions about which approach you'd perceive to produce the best result for someone.

It's why I'm glad I'm in a tech field, at least most of it is deterministic. The friends I have that work in social services have a nightmare of a job sometimes in terms of failed outcomes or unexpected results from treatments and approaches.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#73

Post by [deleted] »

jdietrich wrote: post #38

No. It is never more important to be kind than clever. Never. We have a clear example of this at the moment, with the Paralympic games. The founder of the games, Dr Ludwig Guttmann, revolutionised the care of spinal injury in the UK. Until his innovations, a patient with a spinal cord injury had a life expectancy of less than two years, with most patients dying from bedsores and urinary tract infections. Guttmann's m…

[deleted]

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#74

Post by lwhi »

Kindness is a manifestation of empathy. If you're unable to empathise you'll have trouble being seen to be 'kind'.

It seems that the article provides an example of how 'kindness' has benefited a company with regard to marketing. Performing an act of kindness in order to gain something isn't kind, and the showing potential incentives like this isn't really driving any important point home.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#75

Post by lwhi »

jdietrich wrote: post #38

No. It is never more important to be kind than clever. Never. We have a clear example of this at the moment, with the Paralympic games. The founder of the games, Dr Ludwig Guttmann, revolutionised the care of spinal injury in the UK. Until his innovations, a patient with a spinal cord injury had a life expectancy of less than two years, with most patients dying from bedsores and urinary tract infections. Guttmann's m…

No. It is never more important to be kind than clever. Never.

You're arguing for a world without empathy .. which would in effect, displace humanity as we know it.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#76

Post by marcoi »

"It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever" seems accurate, but obviously (and as this thread shows) it hinges on definitions of "Important", "Kind" and "Clever", and on context (in many circumstances clever > kind, of course).

It may be rephrased as something like "As a human being, it leads to a more fulfilling, meaningful life to be capable of empathy than to have a high IQ", but admittedly that's less catchy. And I'm not even sure it's sufficiently precise: maybe someone can come up with a better way to rephrase it.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#79

Post by lilsunnybee »

j_baker wrote: post #6

It's somewhat ironic, but I frequently see this attitude espoused by programmers or other people who are more on the "clever" side than the "kind" side, and it sounds a bit like a "grass is greener on the other side" type of thing. As someone who's good at being kind, let me say that it's not always what it's cracked up to be. Kindness can not only win you friends and allies, but it can also turn you into a giant doo…

Kind is not being a doormat; kind is doing what will benefit everyone in the long run. Letting yourself be taken advantage of is cruel to yourself, and of questionable long-term value to anyone who would see fit to take advantage of someone else. The kindest thing to do is offer help when it appears to be most valuable, taking your own well-being into account as well as that of others.
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