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CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

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Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#91

Post by phendrenad2 »

hunglee2 wrote: post #43

Revenue maximisation is an 'embedded imperative' of companies a capitalist system, so of course these jobs will be migrated to where they can be done most productively; they will then be automated as soon as the roles become simplified and the AI becomes more advanced. This is neither 'right', not 'wrong' much less shameful; it is simply the logical extension of the socio-economic system we all willingly subscribe to…

You're right, and that's why hoping that companies will just willingly "do the right thing" will never work.

Companies have (at least in the US) the same rights as biological humans. And we've observed corporations long enough to realize that if they were humans, they would be PSYCHOPATHS. Quick, how do you reign in a psychopath? With wishes, hope, or the strong arm of the law? It's option 3, of course. But we don't have a strong arm of the law, we barely even have law these days, and what little law we DO have has been co-opted by the corporations, and generally only wakes up when it's time to defend corporations against the "little guy".

And THAT is why hoping that the government will just willingly "do the right thing" and reign in the psychopathic corps will never work, either.

We need a groundswell of people who demand change pushing upward on the corrupt power structures. When enough people want it, it's what everyone talks about, and politicians can't sidestep the issue any longer, THEN change will occur.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#92

Post by vachina »

RachelF wrote: post #31

Sadly Western IT workers are too expensive for the MBAs running modern corporations. Just before their last big US layoffs, Microsoft announced: "Microsoft is expanding our presence in India with a $3 billion investment"

It would make sense if they’re cheap and good. But the reality is closer to expensive and not that good.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#93

Post by rayiner »

roenxi wrote: post #71
rayiner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“In The Culture Transplant, Garett Jones documents the cultural foundations of cross-country income differences, showing that immigrants import cultural attitudes from their homelands—toward saving, toward trust, and toward the role of government—that persist for decades, and likely for centuries, in their new national homes. Full assimilation in a generation or two, Jones reports, is a myth. And the cultural traits…

True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries. So noting that immigrants will form a complicated tapestry of new beliefs doesn't really bring much to the conversation - there wasn't subgroup of the host nation were they meant to assimilate with in an alternative scenario. The hypothetical culture that countries tell…

> True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries.

In most existing societies, that patchwork follows normal distributions centered around recognizable points. This is obvious even in the U.S. Sure, you’ll meet chatty people in rural Oregon and curt people in rural Georgia. But if you’re culturally calibrated to make small talk like in Georgia then you’ll piss off most cashiers in Oregon.

Once you acknowledge that these differences exist, you also have to acknowledge that these differences aren’t merely superficial. It’s not just food and dress, but also attitudes about honor, conflict resolution, trust, saving, debt, justice, and government. Look at Minnesota (historically) as compared to Scandinavia (from where a lot of Minnesotans immigrated). You can easily see the through lines connecting the governance of those places. You can easily see the differences in governance between Iowa and Alabama.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#94

Post by [deleted] »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #80
geraldwhen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on immigration rates and birth rates, Canada will be mostly Indian at some point in the future. The “future Canadian worker” is Indian.

When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. What I want to address about this comment is the implicit identity associations involved. It's clear that you're drawing an identity distinction between "Canadian" and "Indian". One of the things I've noticed about my own personal associations is that my…

[deleted]

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#95

Post by FirmwareBurner »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #86
fennecbutt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it would still not be great. Local options should always be preferred to protect local job markets. Any company only exists because they can do business locally, so they should support local or be burnt to the ground. I now live in the UK, when I got hired here they had to advertise my position to see if they could fill it locally before they could grant me a visa for it - this is the way.

Many years ago I was hired by {tech company} in {European country} (I'm from the US). Once I worked there for a month and befriended my team, one of them showed me how they posted a fake job listing with exactly my experience, and we all laughed about it. All of the implementations of this legislation seem trivial to rig. Even though it feels good to assume you outcompeted everyone in the UK with your leet skills and…

Yep, same in my EU company, they showed me how easy it was to game the system to easily hire non-EU workers.

EU work visas are like a rubber stamp compared to US ones.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#96

Post by yadaeno »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #80
geraldwhen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on immigration rates and birth rates, Canada will be mostly Indian at some point in the future. The “future Canadian worker” is Indian.

When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. What I want to address about this comment is the implicit identity associations involved. It's clear that you're drawing an identity distinction between "Canadian" and "Indian". One of the things I've noticed about my own personal associations is that my…

Your system of drawing lines and forming “tribes” within social classes reminds me of the caste system.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#97

Post by roenxi »

rayiner wrote: post #93
roenxi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries. So noting that immigrants will form a complicated tapestry of new beliefs doesn't really bring much to the conversation - there wasn't subgroup of the host nation were they meant to assimilate with in an alternative scenario. The hypothetical culture that countries tell…

> True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries. In most existing societies, that patchwork follows normal distributions centered around recognizable points. This is obvious even in the U.S. Sure, you’ll meet chatty people in rural Oregon and curt people in rural Georgia. But if you’re culturally calibrated to make s…

If you bring in a bunch of immigrants it'll still have recognised centres to the distributions. That is literally how the US population was built. That is the thing about distributions, they form. It isn't possible to live in a place with other people and not start forming cultural links.

There isn't a question here that different people have different cultures and migration changes culture. Indeed, if we assume that migrants migrate to places with cultures that promote success then change the culture that'd suggest that migrants cause mean-reversion for the worse. But on the other hand that mean reversion happens anyway, cultures change anyway and migrants tend to be a bit smarter and more motivated than the locals so it is hard to really be certain.

It is still a bit of a non-issue that immigrants don't assimilate into something that doesn't really exist in an environment that was changing anyway. I wish more people from my own culture would assimilate into it a bit better and maybe keep to some of the good ideas a little more diligently. Or even just agree on what they were.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#98

Post by kannanvijayan »

yadaeno wrote: post #96
kannanvijayan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a fresh immigrant child comments like these used to make me feel more uncomfortable than they do now. How I perceive these comments has changed over time. What I want to address about this comment is the implicit identity associations involved. It's clear that you're drawing an identity distinction between "Canadian" and "Indian". One of the things I've noticed about my own personal associations is that my…

Your system of drawing lines and forming “tribes” within social classes reminds me of the caste system.

It's playful language in observation, not prescriptive. The key distinction is that the caste system is impose on the individual, which when you think about it is actually more analogous to national or religious identity.

These new fragmented identities are self-selected.

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#99

Post by stockresearcher »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #89
stockresearcher wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HP became the company that everyone admired and played a significant role in shaping SV by hiring fresh engineering grads from around the country and then paying for them to take nights and weekends MBA classes at Stanford while they worked during the day (you can read about it in Dave Packard’s autobiography). It was then torn apart and turned into a joke by a different set of MBAs. So… perhaps it is a little more c…

You answered your own question. HP took engineers and taught them how to be MBAs, while companies are ruined by career MBAs who were never engineers and were taught in school to see engineering as a cost center that must always be reduced to the lowest bidder.

Nadella was a full-time engineer at Sun while getting his part-time MBA ;)

Re: CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians

#100

Post by Levitz »

roenxi wrote: post #97
rayiner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True enough but probably not relevant to anything. Every society is already a patchwork of families with different beliefs that date back centuries. In most existing societies, that patchwork follows normal distributions centered around recognizable points. This is obvious even in the U.S. Sure, you’ll meet chatty people in rural Oregon and curt people in rural Georgia. But if you’re culturally calibrated to make s…

If you bring in a bunch of immigrants it'll still have recognised centres to the distributions. That is literally how the US population was built. That is the thing about distributions, they form. It isn't possible to live in a place with other people and not start forming cultural links. There isn't a question here that different people have different cultures and migration changes culture. Indeed, if we assume that…

>It is still a bit of a non-issue that immigrants don't assimilate into something that doesn't really exist in an environment that was changing anyway.

The "something that doesn't really exist" is what allows immigrants to come in the first place, an accepting and tolerant culture. It's what allows women to walk home at 2 AM and what made people fight for gay marriage.

Does this nihilistic view of culture cut both ways by the way? Was Nazi Germany just fine culturally speaking?

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