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CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

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Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#141

Post by lproven »

gertlex wrote: post #13
pavlov wrote: post #5

"“Our father, Gary Kildall, was one of the founders of the personal computer industry, but you probably don’t know his name. Those who have heard of him may recall the myth that he ‘missed’ the opportunity to become Bill Gates by going flying instead of meeting with IBM. Unfortunately, this tall tale paints Gary as a ‘could-have-been,’ ignores his deep contributions, and overshadows his role as an inventor of key tec…

I just happen to have been reading this past week, the Digital Antiquarian's IBM PC release overview (4 parts). This covers comparing Gates and Kildall (and includes e.g. the uncertainty of what actually happened with that "flying instead of meeting with IBM") Here's the url to part 2 of that 4-parter, where Gary gets mentioned (also covered in parts 3 and 4): https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-2/

> the uncertainty of what actually happened with that "flying instead of meeting with IBM"

There is zero uncertainty; it's well documented and the passenger in the plane is alive and well and has given interviews about it.

There is a lot of lying and disinformation about it, though.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#142

Post by lproven »

WalterBright wrote: post #96
jen20 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way successful IBM would commit to Microsoft without a thorough vetting. As I recall, at the time said commitment was made, Microsoft didn't even _have_ an operating system, and subsequently bought QDOS! Their original deal was for languages.

Gates convinced IBM that he could build one, as he knew about QDOS, and immediately went and bought QDOS as a base to start with. So, yeah, it was a bit of bluster on his part, but he was able to fulfill the contract.

> immediately went and bought QDOS

Important correction: MS did not buy QDOS -- or SCP.

It licensed it.

Some years later, when MS-DOS was a big hit, then it licensed it.

I suspect this was not in error; it was some form of protective gamble.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#143

Post by lproven »

xen2xen1 wrote: post #54
elzbardico wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be frank. Gates was from the WASP elites, old money stuff. IBM would probably find a reason to give him the deal rather than to Gary no matter what.

Gates had a version of DOS ready in 6 weeks, while DR was still planning DOS. MS got things going much faster.

> DR was still planning DOS

No, DR was planning CP/M-86.

I feel like I'm going down this thread posting corrections, but when trying to thrash out the details, I think it's vital to get the details right.

DR was about 3Y late with CP/M-86. The 8086 shipped in 1979, IIRC -- I was only 12 -- and there was no CP/M yet. The IBM PC shipped in 1981. Still no CP/M.

Tim Paterson, author of QDOS, went on record as saying he'd never have bothered if CP/M-86 had actually shipped.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#144

Post by lproven »

jacquesm wrote: post #136
WalterBright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I have a different point of view.

Of all the hills you could die on this one seems really silly.

I have to agree. This is a very very odd objection, and it does not match up with my ~40 years of study of this industry, including WB's work.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#145

Post by Mraedis »

fortran77 wrote: post #124
skibz wrote: post #6

I wish Gary was one of the people that the average joe associated with "people who are known for doing computer things", instead of only people such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. His accomplishments cannot be overstated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#Recognition

Everyone knows Gary Kildall. You're not the only one.

I hadn't heard of him before this post.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#146

Post by canucker2016 »

lproven wrote: post #142
WalterBright wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates convinced IBM that he could build one, as he knew about QDOS, and immediately went and bought QDOS as a base to start with. So, yeah, it was a bit of bluster on his part, but he was able to fulfill the contract.

> immediately went and bought QDOS Important correction: MS did not buy QDOS -- or SCP. It licensed it. Some years later, when MS-DOS was a big hit, then it licensed it. I suspect this was not in error; it was some form of protective gamble.

According to Tim Paterson's blog and Paul Allen autobiography, MS bought SCP's QDOS on 1981 July 27 (MS had a non-exclusive license for QDOS to sell to OEMs). This is before the IBM PC release in August.

see https://web.archive.org/web/20190722012644/http://www.paters...

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#147

Post by rbanffy »

8bitsrule wrote: post #114
rbanffy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And had no timesharing features at all.

TS was fairly scarce in those times - let alone on PCs. I wonder when the first general-purpose time-share system was available ... outside of mainframes? I know UofM's MECC had MECC Timesharing System (MTS) up on a Cyber73 in 1977 ; before that, their SUMITS had to make do with batch-processing on a FunnyVac.

DRI had MP/M in 1979. I'm thinking about writing a multi-user dungeon for it. There doesn't seem to be any multi-user games for MP/M and, with the ability to host 4 terminals on an emulated Altair, it seems like a waste of resources not to have one.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#148

Post by rbanffy »

canucker2016 wrote: post #101
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs had a key difference from Gates - he had taste. He insisted on the injection molded case for the Apple II instead of sheet metal because he wanted it to look like a finished product. He insisted on not having lines dividing the color bands in their logo, which made it more expensive to print (but much nicer to look at). Jobs would never let something like Windows 1 escape the lab.

Jobs had control of the hardware and the software. Gates (well, the MS programmers) had to make the software work on the PC hardware of the time (CGA/EGA video cards including non-square pixels and terrible colour palette, see https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20100625-00/?p=13... )

Terrible palettes were a thing (the Macintosh II was the first Apple computer able to correctly display the Apple logo) in other platforms as well, as were rectangular pixels. Macintosh was the first Apple computer designed to have square pixels (even though the II came close for its original HGR modes, but that was gone with the /// and //e higher resolution modes).

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#149

Post by lproven »

canucker2016 wrote: post #146
lproven wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> immediately went and bought QDOS Important correction: MS did not buy QDOS -- or SCP. It licensed it. Some years later, when MS-DOS was a big hit, then it licensed it. I suspect this was not in error; it was some form of protective gamble.

According to Tim Paterson's blog and Paul Allen autobiography, MS bought SCP's QDOS on 1981 July 27 (MS had a non-exclusive license for QDOS to sell to OEMs). This is before the IBM PC release in August. see https://web.archive.org/web/20190722012644/http://www.paters...

That was the year after MS initially licensed it.

MS did buy it eventually, but not immediately.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#150

Post by canucker2016 »

lproven wrote: post #149
canucker2016 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Tim Paterson's blog and Paul Allen autobiography, MS bought SCP's QDOS on 1981 July 27 (MS had a non-exclusive license for QDOS to sell to OEMs). This is before the IBM PC release in August. see https://web.archive.org/web/20190722012644/http://www.paters...

That was the year after MS initially licensed it. MS did buy it eventually, but not immediately.

MS bought SCP's QDOS less than one year after IBM came to them to discuss software for the IBM PC. source - Paul Allen's autobio, Tim Paterson's blog entry.
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