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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#221

Post by amluto »

jojobas wrote: post #49
amluto wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having played with an SGP41 (a current-gen VOC sensor), you cannot correctly do anything involving a threshold. The sensor has a couple of nasty properties, all well documented in the datasheet: - It has a lot of low frequency noise (timescale of hours to days), so you need to do some sort of high pass filter. - The responses to different VOC compounds don’t even necessarily have the same sign . So the sensor gives y…

>some sort of high pass filter Quite some algorithm you got there!

There is a concrete algorithm, IIRC complete with pseudocode, in the datasheet. You can find open source implementations in various places. And you can have your own opinion about whether the algorithm is fit for your particular purpose.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#222

Post by IncreasePosts »

jdenning wrote: post #18

This seems like outright fraud - how can they charge a cleaning fee and then perform no cleaning?

Do you know they don't do cleaning? They might bring an ozone machine into the room or something

Maybe it should be called an accelerated asset deprecation fee.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#223

Post by archagon »

SoftTalker wrote: post #182
DudeOpotomus wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's just stupidity and myopia. Like those screens that replaced glass beverage cases in liquor stores a few years ago. Not one customer liked them. Not one customer wanted them and the results were beyond terrible. People literally stopped buying. But people actually invested millions into that company and other people actually bought their products and thought "gee this is great". Imagine how disconnected you h…

Maybe I don't go to liquor stores often enough but I can't imagine what you are talking about.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/12/business/walgreens-freeze...

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#224

Post by lxgr »

grishka wrote: post #216
hansvm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Do hotels in the US not allow you to pay with cash any more? What if you don't have an internationally accepted card?

I believe many US hotels won't let you check in without at least a debit card these days.

Possibly you can also put down the same amount they take as a hold on the card in cash, but I've never tried it.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#225

Post by refulgentis »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #195
lxgr wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in.

This is exactly the kind of subversive stuff I live for.

Live for?

Or fantasize about? :)

It's a fun fantasy, but the fact we're happy to see it highlights our impotency - even a line worker sympathetic to the power imbalance would be left at "Anyways, we'll charge the fee to your card on file"

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#226

Post by mindslight »

yladiz wrote: post #194
mindslight wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos. They take what should be many separate instances of fraud with unknown unknowns and tie them all off in one small garbage bag. Half the money goes to the attorneys and the other half is a token payment or even just funds a coupon to encourage doing more business with the perpetrator. I'd really like to see some service that facilitates you opting out of a class action, and…

Was it necessary to make your point in a very snarky manner? Edit: For context, the first sentence of the version I commented on was "You do realize that class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos, right?", which comes across as quite snarky. It was edited at some point.

Yes, I edited it out. You were right, and I figured it better for the conversation to just not start off with that phrasing. Sorry for not seeing a way to make that apparent while also not growing accidental complexity.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#227

Post by lxgr »

refulgentis wrote: post #225
Der_Einzige wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the kind of subversive stuff I live for.

Live for? Or fantasize about? :) It's a fun fantasy, but the fact we're happy to see it highlights our impotency - even a line worker sympathetic to the power imbalance would be left at "Anyways, we'll charge the fee to your card on file"

I wonder if there's a business model for a "robo-lawyer" paired with a travel agency here: "Stay at one of these hotels using this credit card issued by us, sign this contract promising that you won't smoke there, and if the hotel tries anything funny, we'll reward you with the room rate back and a bonus" :)

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#228

Post by hdgvhicv »

andrepd wrote: post #115
Havoc wrote: post #107

> “unlock a new revenue stream” Monetizing fire safety. Lovely. Appears this company rebranded from NoiseAware. More tech to monitor "valued" guests...this time on noise levels

It's the consequence of growth capitalism. When it's not enough to make money, you have to make more money this quarter than you did last, then it's really only a matter of time until everything is monetised under the exclusive logic of greed, devoid of any other considerations of a moral or human order. Public goods, water fountains, libraries, beaches, forests. Basic state functions. Your attention, at every moment…

The stock market grows by 10% a year. Worker income only grows 2% a year. Those aren’t sustainable.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#229

Post by variadix »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

Trading the long term reputation of your company for short term profits. What could go wrong?

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#230

Post by hansvm »

grishka wrote: post #216
hansvm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Do hotels in the US not allow you to pay with cash any more? What if you don't have an internationally accepted card?

You can pay with cash. You usually can't stay without a credit card. Even debit often doesn't suffice.
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