Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#661

Post by pqtyw » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

louthy wrote: post #636

pqtyw wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Church of England Doesn't mean that continental Europe wasn't full of puritanical nutjobs. Calvin himself ran a dystopian theocratic state\hellhole in Geneva yet hardly anyone references that when talking about conservativism in Switzerland. > Even 120-130 years after the point There was a significant generational backlash towards puritanism and a push towards pluralism/secularism by the late 1700s. IMHO Second/Thi…

> Doesn't mean that continental Europe wasn't full of puritanical nutjobs. I believe English puritans were also in Holland and France for a while.

Yes the Pilgrims for instance emigrated from Holland and not England. Of course the Plymouth Colony was quite "progressive" compared to the oppressive theocracy in Massachusetts. At least they weren't hanging quakers, dissenters and didn't burn a single witch during the panic..

Anyway I don't think that the English Puritans/etc. were somehow particularly exceptional (besides the fact that they emigrated to North America) compared to other similar groups in Europe.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#662

Post by gmd63 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:30 PM UTC

If you don't like it, start another payment processor that doesn't cave to pressure. Where are all the free market proselytizers at?

I expect all of you complaining about this to never once complain on legal grounds about Apple's 30% tax in the app store or when a bakery refuses to sell a cake to a gay person.

This is what unrestricted freedom for every entity looks like.

And this is why we need laws and regulations that are actually enforced. Because companies and larger organisms do not necessarily operate on timescales that are able to be reasonably responded to within a human lifespan.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#663

Post by canibal » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

Aside from the moral clamor, if something has a higher likelihood of fraud, there's a direct relationship with the increase of its cost. Both legal fees and labor cost to deal with these claims could add up more than we outsiders may realize. It's very possible that some risk-averse analyst "ran the numbers", and decided this wasn't worth it. I would also speculate that there may be a certain hidden coat of false fraud claims. Certain folks buying something in the moment, then shamefully claiming they didn't after the fact, which in turn could carry the costs associated with processing a new card & number or conversely fighting false claims.

As for the morality angle though, while I definitely agree that these companies' main motivation has to be increasing revenue and profit, and that their only reason for doing anything is cost-driven; you never know what middle-manager who is swayed by what belief is actually making these decisions. So as much as the monolithic goal of the organization is more money, there are still emotional (and financially fallible) people pulling the levers.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#664

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #356

SJC_Hacker wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are on the hook for fraudulent transactions, until they get to merchant to refund. Otherwise they wouldn't care. Which is why some merchants get effectively blacklisted if they have too many fraudulent transactions

No, I get it. Give me a "Freedom Card" or whatever that generates a one-time use number/cvv combo, backed by cash, that I'm fully responsible for. If I give a guy on the corner $5 cash and he walks off with it, that's between me and him. We don't need to resort to crypto. I don't care if there's a paper trail, I don't need to be anonymous. I just don't want money people to have any say in how people choose to spend t…

[deleted]

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#665

Post by hulitu » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:33 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #282

I think it’s hilarious we allow stuff like Postal or Soldier of Fortune without a question, where the whole focus is on going crazy and murdering a whole bunch of people. But try to show a sensual human body, instead of one that’s ripped into small pieces, and oh my god, this is going too far!

I also find it hilarious. Killing people in movies and video games get a lower age rating than sex.

And religious groups talking about protecting children (while raping them) is hypocrisy at its finest.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#666

Post by gjsman-1000 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

gmd63 wrote: post #662

If you don't like it, start another payment processor that doesn't cave to pressure. Where are all the free market proselytizers at? I expect all of you complaining about this to never once complain on legal grounds about Apple's 30% tax in the app store or when a bakery refuses to sell a cake to a gay person. This is what unrestricted freedom for every entity looks like. And this is why we need laws and regulations…

Okay. I walk into a Jewish bakery and want a red cake with a Nazi flag on it.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#667

Post by nemomarx » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

canibal wrote: post #663

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

Aside from the moral clamor, if something has a higher likelihood of fraud, there's a direct relationship with the increase of its cost. Both legal fees and labor cost to deal with these claims could add up more than we outsiders may realize. It's very possible that some risk-averse analyst "ran the numbers", and decided this wasn't worth it. I would also speculate that there may be a certain hidden coat of false fra…

The fraud thing explains why they might avoid an entirely adult storefront for it, but for steam? who has their own refund policies and support system that presumably shields the payment processor from charge backs most of the time?

There are also large anti porn lobbying groups applying pressure to the payment processors, so that angle creates costs in a different way.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#668

Post by hulitu » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:35 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #415

bfg_9k wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This genuinely baffles me. Who cares! It's a video game. It's pixels on a screen. True crime podcasts and movies are a-okay but when its a video game that's where the line is drawn?

The people who care signed their names[1]. It's not a secret or anything. Most of the signatories are associated with Australian anti sex trafficking and exploitation groups, although there are several UK signatories and a couple Americans. A publication[2] by one of the signatories connects the dots. It's driven by the core idea: "Pornography Use Shapes and Changes Sexual Tastes"[3] which is supported by "In a surve…

> 47% reported being involved in practice or seeing pornography which previously was not interesting to or even disgusted them

Yeah, right.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#669

Post by welshwelsh » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #468

xboxnolifes wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not exactly a credit card at that point. And with a credit card, you're explicitly not spending your money. Though i agree with the idea of a debit card that doesn't allow chargebacks, but without so many annoying restrictions.

Yeah, a "Freedom Card". Our money, they move it, no moralizing. We don't need crypto to fix this, just common sense legislation. No company or individual should be denied the right to receive funds digitally without due process. Companies should be free to transact with or exclude anyone, but there should be neutral infrastructure that facilitates the flow of money, with multiple players each with differing rules and…

You think that common sense legislation is a more realistic solution than crypto?

You can never rely on governments or corporations to have reasonable policies. Any payment system that is centrally controlled will inevitably be corrupted.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#670

Post by martin-t » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:38 PM UTC

gmd63 wrote: post #662

If you don't like it, start another payment processor that doesn't cave to pressure. Where are all the free market proselytizers at? I expect all of you complaining about this to never once complain on legal grounds about Apple's 30% tax in the app store or when a bakery refuses to sell a cake to a gay person. This is what unrestricted freedom for every entity looks like. And this is why we need laws and regulations…

IME people who propose absolute freedom in any regard (speech, use of power, use of money,...) fundamentally don't understand the difference of power between individuals, let alone individuals and organizations.

This is why anarcho- anything can't work. Some people specialize in building thing, since in providing a service, some specialize in making money and grabbing power. When the builders and providers don't unite to hold them back (like... forming a government) those people end up forming a mafia. Of course the state is a mafia too. You gotta pick your evils.