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NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

thecity.nyc

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Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#111

Post by thisislife2 »

stefan_ wrote: post #94
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #22

How many rights will we be asked to give up in order to squash anti-war sentiment?

This guy was accused of hurling a rock at a protester, it seems we are trying to defend the right to peaceful protest? Like, this guy was identified off video of him throwing a rock at a protester that hit them in the face. By all accounts this is someone who is trying to violently suppress peoples rights. That he got off on police misconduct in the investigation is a loss to society, no matter how many waxing words…

That's a separate issue. The US is an exception where evidence that is collected illegally (see 'fruit of the poisonous tree' - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree ) is not allowed in court. Thus, US law enforcements have come up with many creative means (like Parallel Construction - https://restorethe4th.com/our-new-brief-on-parallel-construc... ) to hide the fact that evidence was collected illegally. If you want justice to be done in the US, you want US law enforcement to comply with the law. Otherwise it could result in a miscarriage of justice - the guilty may escape because of police misconduct or innocents may be persecuted by the violation of their rights. This loophole used seems to be the grey area of the law. But loopholes too are slippery slopes in the law and shouldn't exist.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#113

Post by gr_norm »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #109
gr_norm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed many right-leaning tech types give quite a lot of lip service to free speech when it's about someone getting banned from a mailing list for being an asshole, and not so much when it's the government quashing protest against genocide. I'll personally always defend the idea of free speech, no matter the side.

>I'll personally always defend the idea of free speech, no matter the side. You attacked the idea of free speech for the other side in the same comment where you said this. I would assume based on reference to government infringements that you're referring to the first amendment as "free speech" if you hadn't specifically emphasized "idea"; conservatives have no real first amendment case, but they do get censored and…

No? I would defend the first example too, which is why I specified the idea rather than the letter (the 1A). Is it so rare to see someone who genuinely cares about this stuff, not just for those who agree with me? That I think they're an asshole is irrelevant.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#114

Post by tptacek »

conception wrote: post #96
andrewla wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It’s the same basic thing as a spear being the same as a nuclear weapon. “They both kill people!” Walking around with a photo versus walking around with a hundred million photos and asking everyone simultaneously should not be considered about the basic same thing.

It is very bad to throw spears at people, despite the existence of nuclear weapons.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#115

Post by 542354234235 »

neilv wrote: post #44

This seems to be a mixed bag for privacy. You have the judge coming down on the side of privacy, which is good; but the circumstances of the particular case are troubling (allegations of someone throwing a rock at someone else). I'd be happier gaining ground for privacy rights with cases about, e.g., blanket surveillance, using surveillance for political purposes, surveillance capitalism, etc. Then we figure out wher…

“It is better, so the Fourth Amendment teaches us, that the guilty sometimes go free than the citizens be subject to easy arrest.” - Former Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#116

Post by noqc »

gr_norm wrote: post #65
one-note wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a lot. The #1 right, for instance: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_t... Curious why this is downvoted?

I've noticed many right-leaning tech types give quite a lot of lip service to free speech when it's about someone getting banned from a mailing list for being an asshole, and not so much when it's the government quashing protest against genocide. I'll personally always defend the idea of free speech, no matter the side.

Then you should read the article.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#117

Post by some_random »

krapp wrote: post #74
neilv wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does the fire department need access to run facial recognition? Arson investigation, identifying the people at the scene of a suspicious fire?

The job of the fire department should be to fight fires, not to investigate crimes. The police should be the ones investigating crimes, under extremely strict and limited guidelines (eg. 4th amendment) which in this case include not being allowed to use facial recognition software.

I think it's better to have a specific expert non-police organization in charge of investigating specific crimes like this, in fact we could probably do more of this. The issue here is that the NYPD wasn't banned because of 4th amendment reasons but based on a local law that didn't consider this loophole.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#118

Post by some_random »

mc32 wrote: post #93
andrewla wrote: post #77

[flagged]

Indeed. Enhancements are used too freely. They should only be an option in egregious cases, otherwise just charge people with the actual crime they committed. I don’t like how enhancements are distributed like candy.

The trouble is that depending on the political affiliations of the people receiving the enhancement, you'll get different groups of people reflexively supporting or denouncing the system.

Re: NYPD bypassed facial recognition ban to ID pro-Palestinian student protester

#120

Post by jajuuka »

krapp wrote: post #74
neilv wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does the fire department need access to run facial recognition? Arson investigation, identifying the people at the scene of a suspicious fire?

The job of the fire department should be to fight fires, not to investigate crimes. The police should be the ones investigating crimes, under extremely strict and limited guidelines (eg. 4th amendment) which in this case include not being allowed to use facial recognition software.

So adding more responsibilities to police to now also get expert level training in determining causes of fires and finding clues in a fire incident. That's kind of how we got here. Where the police are a panacea making them less effective and more corrupt since they are an even bigger keystone.

Separating out duties to experts is more effective. Let the fire department investigate fires and then pass on the information for the police to secure the suspect/s and follow the justice system. Same with mental health emergency cases. More social workers and experts dealing with a variety of mental disorders will be better to work people in crisis since they are trained for that.

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