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Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

nickoneill.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#51

Post by wamatt »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

This really resonates, having felt the pressure to bullshit since arriving in SV. But, I strongly believe succumbing to all that, would ultimately make me miserable..

Also therein lies opportunity, to stand out, to leave a lasting impression. While my network is still small, and I'm not known by many people yet, they trust me, and know they will get honest feedback, without the BS. If someone asks hows it going? I say: "I'm not really sure, today" or I "slept all day haha" or sometimes positive stuff too "super productive week", because it's ups and downs. If they don't understand that, or think I'm a loser, so be it.

Have nothing to prove or forced to say anything that isn't true. And maybe that's a luxury, so not saying this path will work for everyone, or that it's the 'best'. It's just a strategy, and so are lies, deception, inflation which I will try my hardest to avoid at all costs, because it goes against my core values.

YMMV

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#52

Post by mjn »

montecarl wrote: post #50
mjn wrote: post #40

I see this often in academia as well, and imo it really damages the scientific literature. When I read an article, I really want an honest assessment by the author of the strengths and weaknesses of their approach and others. I don't only want to hear about how great the author's approach is, but I also want to hear positive things said about the "related work", and negative things said in the Conclusions about their…

My Ph.D. thesis advisor and I are trying to combat this trend in our field. We are working to develop a suite of benchmarks to evaluate and compare different methods/algorithms. The goal is to require everyone to run their code against a set of accepted standard problems in the field and obtain a fair comparison. As reviewers of papers we can and must hold authors accountable to their claims. You can't just claim tha…

That's an interesting approach that I do think can improve some things, but I think the underlying problem is that incentives need to be changed. It's not only metrics, but just giving honest opinions: what use-cases do you really think your algorithm is suited for, not looking at it in the most optimistic possible light? If academia weren't as ultra-competitive as it's become in the past two decades or so, I think there would be more chances of getting honest and useful answers to such questions in papers. One still finds them sometimes in papers of people who don't have to play "the game" anymore: papers by senior full-professor types are often quite interesting because of how they can say what they really think.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#53

Post by pg »

Every place full of ambitious people is full of liars, but I've lived in several such places and overall the ratio of lying to ambition here is lower than anywhere else I've found. There are a lot more posers in New York and LA and Cambridge than there are in SV.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#54

Post by supercanuck »

xanados wrote: post #34
supercanuck wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't necessarily credit card fraud though. It could just be unapproved expenses and incidentals. When I worked with Fortune 500 Co, I had unapproved expenses that I had to pay for. I wouldn't consider that "stealing." All we know from that article is "several thousands".. could that be dry cleaning bills over 3 years or is she buying HDTV's on amazon. hard to say. The problem I have with all this, is all this e…

The e-mail from Michael Herzog, assuming it's legitimate, is pretty damning. Unapproved incidentals doesn't account for using someone else's work credit card to purchase multiple plane tickets. I agree with your broader point, however, and don't think this story is particularly appropriate, at least for HackerNews_(t-3).

I went back and read the article you mentioned, and I still don't. I see a corporate credit card being used for travel expenses and incidentals. He even says in the "damning" email that she met a business associate of his.

I see an accusation, but I also see a business meeting and a corporate credit card being used.

I don't see theft, pathological lying and a mental disorder, but there very well could be dishonesty going on. Who knows, though. This is why we have courts of law.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#55

Post by chrischen »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

I wouldn't say it forces people, just heavily compels people.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#56

Post by paulsutter »

The most successful people I know are straight shooters who tell it like it is. Even the mild bullshitters I know are struggling to make anything happen.

VCs will not hand over tens of millions of dollars to someone they know is a liar or habitual exaggerator. Sure, they don't always find out in time. But I really haven't seen that strategy work out.

There is no benefit to telling a good story unless you actually have a good story.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#57

Post by anon808 »

mattmanser wrote: post #25

When I was about 12 I remember doing some school craft competition where we had to make and then sell our wares to our teachers. A teacher said something to me that's always stuck, but I always struggle with following. It was "Don't point out your own short comings" I was saying things like 'in the final run the paint job will be better', highlighting the deficiencies of our Xmas decorations instead of highlighting t…

Once it's recognized that a person thought that way, why would any rational person believe what they had to say?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#58

Post by the_bear »

biznickman wrote: post #49
mattmanser wrote: post #25

When I was about 12 I remember doing some school craft competition where we had to make and then sell our wares to our teachers. A teacher said something to me that's always stuck, but I always struggle with following. It was "Don't point out your own short comings" I was saying things like 'in the final run the paint job will be better', highlighting the deficiencies of our Xmas decorations instead of highlighting t…

As we discussed in the comments of the post, I think I simply blur the definition of "lying". Stretching the truth, or purposely omitting the other side of the story is a form of lying if you ask me. Am I completely wrong here?

There's a big difference between saying something with a positive spin (vanity metrics, unfounded optimism, etc.) and photoshopping a fake picture of yourself with celebrities.

Most of your examples of lying are just about interpreting things differently. To an entrepreneur, their company is heading in the right direction because the signups are consistently going up. Sure, they haven't figured out how to keep those people engaged yet, but building a successful company takes time. There's not a blurry gray area between focusing on the positives and completely making something up that's provably false.

Yes, there are plenty of liars out there, but I don't think most of the behavior you're describing in your post fits that description.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#60

Post by orangethirty »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #41
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worst argument in the world thanks for the link. I'll read it later tonight. > So pulling it back to the 'forcing' thing, this behavior erodes trust. Yes, absolutely. > And the best thing about it is you don't have to keep remembering what you said to be sure and not contradict yourself. For me the most important part is maintaining self-respect. Not contradicting yourself doesn't hurt either. What concerns me, tho…

It is entirely a function of fashion + money. I know that sounds stupid but it is. The fashion part comes from what it means to be 'hip' which entirely driven by the flavor of the hour. We've talked about it on HN a bit but the best analog is that the coolness factor of 'doing a startup' got to be high enough that we got a huge influx of people who "want to do a startup" which is distinct and different from folks who…

Spot on. Those who see a startup as the purpose of doing one are soon going to find out how hard this stuff is. Even being a freelancer is pretty tough. Its not all nice and easy. Takes a lot of work and commitment to be able to pull anything off. Thats why everytime somebody wants me to be their co-founder I tell them I already have enough of those. What I'm looking for is work of the paid variety. Something that most of these dreamers lack. :)

Off topic:

Chuck, I'm still waiting for that datacenter in my pocket idea to launch. ;)

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