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Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

nickoneill.com

31–40 of 91 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#31

The author may have a point in general, but using Holstein is sounding more and more like the wrong example to stand behind. One of the comments in the blog post points to a very in-depth betabeat article that says that Holstein was involved with much more than just name dropping... she has been accused of credit card fraud and ripping off people around her. If the allegations are true, it might be that she is a crim…

I have to ask, who cares outside of Silicon Valley?

I'm sat here at a computer near London and it just doesn't matter what she did or didn't do. You could turn around and say I don't matter and you'd be right, except for when someone's looking for me to sign up, and what she did or didn't do wouldn't affect my sign up.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#32
The world is filled with liars. I can come up with examples of this happening outside Silicon Valley for almost all of these points.

Vanity metrics? "Customers saved an average of $200 by switching to Geico"

Acquisition boasting? I'm sure this happens all the time, but nothing comes to mind immediately.

Perpetual Euphoria? Enron's CEO talked the company up until the last minute.

Perpetual Euphoria for Investors? Housing bubble.

Lying about firings? How many people who publicly resign are actually fired? Happens all the time in DC.

Lying about how committed you are? I'm sure this happens all the time, but nothing comes to mind immediately.

Lying about how much money you're losing? Enron. WorldCom. Banks.

Lying about who you're friends with? Every high schooler in existence.

TL;DR - The world is filled with slimeballs.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#33

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

"What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway."

I can't say I agree with this, the implication is that if you don't do it you will be harmed, which may be true in the short term but not in the long term [1]. I liked xo's reference to the worst argument in the world (http://lesswrong.com/lw/e95/the_worst_argument_in_the_world/) basically if you focus on the lying you miss the argument.

So when someone says "How is your startup going?" you provide the most positive answer you can come up with. This is a lie of omission if there are big clouds gathering over it, but if what you say is truthful then you've met the social obligation of responding. I've got a friend who is explicitly complete when you ask them how they are doing, with comments like "well my hemorrhoids have flared up and all the fruit I ate gave me diarrhea so my arse is pretty painful at the moment." which people find a bit off putting. You don't have to be graphic like that of course and so if you're omitting details on the principle that this other person is just making 'small talk' then I would argue that is Ok.

Now if you have a potential investor ask you "How is your startup going?" and you say "Great! Adding users like crazy, totally crushing it!" when you know you won't make payroll next month if you don't get some more money in, that is lying with an intent to deceive the investor. The goal being to get them to invest before they really find out what is going on so that afterwards it will be fine. I've known people who do this, they rationalize it by thinking "Lets assume this person has just invested the money I need, what would the status of my startup be then?" and they answer that way, because that statement will be true in the future if they invest, and if they don't invest the startup will be dead anyway so who cares. But it robs the investor of the data they need to ask critical questions. It could be that the startup really does just need a bridge investment to cross the 'chasm' (in the Geoffrey Moore sense), but it also might mean there is fundamentally something wrong like a dysfunctional engineering or marketing team. This sort of 'loose relationship with reality' is just wrong.

So pulling it back to the 'forcing' thing, this behavior erodes trust. And in so doing puts folks who engage in it at a disadvantage against those who do not. So choosing not to engage may lose you a deal today, but longer term will make you more respected which will get your more business later. And the best thing about it is you don't have to keep remembering what you said to be sure and not contradict yourself.

[1] I get the point where you don't survive to the long term which is bad.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#34

The author may have a point in general, but using Holstein is sounding more and more like the wrong example to stand behind. One of the comments in the blog post points to a very in-depth betabeat article that says that Holstein was involved with much more than just name dropping... she has been accused of credit card fraud and ripping off people around her. If the allegations are true, it might be that she is a crim…

That isn't necessarily credit card fraud though. It could just be unapproved expenses and incidentals. When I worked with Fortune 500 Co, I had unapproved expenses that I had to pay for. I wouldn't consider that "stealing." All we know from that article is "several thousands".. could that be dry cleaning bills over 3 years or is she buying HDTV's on amazon. hard to say. The problem I have with all this, is all this e…

The e-mail from Michael Herzog, assuming it's legitimate, is pretty damning. Unapproved incidentals doesn't account for using someone else's work credit card to purchase multiple plane tickets. I agree with your broader point, however, and don't think this story is particularly appropriate, at least for HackerNews_(t-3).

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#35
Like them or not, these kinds of exaggerations and not-quite-lies are common in business for a good reason: if customers, partners, investors, and/or employees ever perceive a company as a failure, they will start leaving the company. Once a company starts losing customers, partners, investors, and/or top people, it can quickly find itself in a downward spiral that is extremely difficult to reverse.

When it comes to entrepreneurs specifically, more often than not the positive spin is just a sincere effort to generate momentum 'out of thin air' when facing the harsh realities and stomach-churning odds of entrepreneurship.

What that woman profiled in TechCrunch did, however, was very different: she crossed the line.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#36

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

"What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway." I can't say I agree with this, the implication is that if you don't do it you will be harmed, which may be true in the short term but not in the long term [1]. I liked xo's reference to the worst argument in the world ( http://lesswrong.com/lw/e95/the_worst_argument_in_the_world/ ) basic…

> worst argument in the world

thanks for the link. I'll read it later tonight.

> So pulling it back to the 'forcing' thing, this behavior erodes trust.

Yes, absolutely.

> And the best thing about it is you don't have to keep remembering what you said to be sure and not contradict yourself.

For me the most important part is maintaining self-respect. Not contradicting yourself doesn't hurt either.

What concerns me, though, is the seeming rampancy of this behavior. I wasn't in the industry for the aftermath of the first dot com bubble, so it's possible that this behavior will go away, and I just haven't seen it happen before. I'd be interested in your take on it, since your resume indicates you were in the middle of it.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#37
post #16

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

"that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway" In a way similar to what some people do to attract the opposite (or, uh I guess in cases the same) sex. If there is a perceived big enough prize people will say what they have to say to win. For the record early in my career with my first company I had to sell up against IBM for a contract about 500 hundred thousand dollars. I told the buyer…

Ah, the good old "We try harder"; made famous by AVIS:

http://www.avis.com.cy/We_try_harder.html

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#38

When I was about 12 I remember doing some school craft competition where we had to make and then sell our wares to our teachers. A teacher said something to me that's always stuck, but I always struggle with following. It was "Don't point out your own short comings" I was saying things like 'in the final run the paint job will be better', highlighting the deficiencies of our Xmas decorations instead of highlighting t…

Agreed. When I read

Walk around any conference that startup founders are attending and you are bound to hear countless stories of how well things are going.

I think, "Well, duh. You know, the truth might not be any of your business."

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#39
White lies are a necessary evil in business and in life. Would you tell someone with terminal illness that they look like shit and that there's no hope? It is a good thing, however, that YC has been turning back the dial on presenting vanity metrics + funding pitches at their demo days. At some unquantifiable threshold, white lies do become outright lies.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#40
I see this often in academia as well, and imo it really damages the scientific literature. When I read an article, I really want an honest assessment by the author of the strengths and weaknesses of their approach and others. I don't only want to hear about how great the author's approach is, but I also want to hear positive things said about the "related work", and negative things said in the Conclusions about their own work. But usually neither of those happens, because then your paper won't be accepted: you need to demolish the existing work and play up your own great contribution. I think it's what happens naturally in environments that are based more on competition than concern for accuracy.
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