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AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

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Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#31
At first I was thinking, let's see if an argument is made that is not applicable to GI, whether artificial or not, and if not, why even mention AI at all?

Then I started to read the paper, and it's worse.

Every one of his 'examples' would not just be 'solved' by any existing LLM, even a 'dumb' system that just spits out a random sentence to any question would pass his first 2 'tests' with flying colors. I'm not kidding, he accepts "Leave the classroom and stop confusing everybody with your senseless questions" as a good solution.

In fact, the only system that would fail is this hypothetical AI he imagines that somehow gets into infinitely analyzing loops.

Then his 3rd test, an investment decision, gives the same outcome as himself up until the point he draws in extra information not available to the AI, after which he flips his 'answer' which he then labels as 'correct' and the previous answer based on the original info as 'false' because he made some money on the bet a few weeks later, seriously?

Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#32
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to check out the works of that buzzkill that Gödel is ^^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_... " The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an effective procedure (i.e. an algorithm) is capable of proving all truths about the arithmetic of natural numbers. For any such consistent formal system, there will always…

> You might want to check out the works of that buzzkill that Gödel is ^^ Please explain why do you believe this is relevant to the points I've made.

It argues of “impossibilities” and also proves it.

Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#33
The physics of our brains can in principle be simulated at a subatomic quantum level mathematically, even on a classical computer. It would be absurdly expensive and slow with current technology, but it is mathematically possible. Therefore our own generally intelligent brains can be considered a counterexample.

I think for your theory to hold up, you would need to show that physics cannot, even in principle, be simulated mathematically at sufficient scale (the number of interacting subatomic particles). That would be surprising.

At the moment it seems like your results contradict reality, meaning your starting assumptions cannot all be true.

Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#34
post #4

How is your brain doing it then?

It follows that it doesn’t. In practical terms, the result doesn’t matter. The race to approximate the human thought process and call it AGI (which is what matters economically) is on. If you can approximate it meaningfully faster that the real brain works in meatspace, you are winning. What it will mean for humanity or civilization is an open question.

The race to approximate the human thought process and call it AGI (which is what matters economically) is on

Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but I'd argue that there's no particular reason to say that AGI involves "approximating the human thought process". That is, what matters is the result, not the process. IF one can find another way to "get there" in a completely different manner than the human mind, then great.

That said, obviously there is some appeal to the "mimic human thought" approach since human thought is currently an existence proof that the kind of intelligence we are talking about is possible at all and mimicking that does seem like an obvious path to try.

Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#35

How is your brain doing it then?

The "A" stands for "Artificial" in contrast to what our brains do.

That's kind of distinction with no distinction though, in this context. Our brains are physical machines, and computers are physical machines. Sure, one is wetware and based on chemistry, biology, and some electricity, while the other is based on electricity, logic gates, and bits and bytes, but still... if one can be intelligent, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason to think that the other can't as well.

Re: AGI Is Mathematically Impossible (3): Kolmogorov Complexity

#39
post #21

I didnt read your draft paper, but your premise in HN sounds a bit off to me. AGI does not assume the ability for finding or learning an optimal solution to every problem (with that assumption it would be trivial to prove it impossible in many different ways). Independent of the exact definition, a system of intelligence that is better or equal to the best human in any domain would be at least termed AGI. (If there e…

Independent of the exact definition, a system of intelligence that is better or equal to the best human in any domain would be at least termed AGI. Exactly. There's this "thing" you see in certain circles, where people (intentionally?) mis-interpret the "G" in AGI as meaning "the most general possible intelligence". But that's not the reality. AGI has pretty much always been taken to mean "AI that is approximately hu…

What I remember is that a lot of people used the word 'AI', other (including me) said 'thats not intelligence, it's too specific', and poof, a new word came to replace the word AI, 'AGI', to mean an AI that can adapt to new, unforseen situations.

The LLM that will convince me that AGI is near is one that will understand language enough to find the linguistic rules of conlangs they weren't trained on (or more specifically, engineered languages made by linguists with our current knowledge of how languages work), and create grammatically correct sentences. Something someone trained on can do with great effort, but it's more due to breaking habits and limited brainpower than real complexity.

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