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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

621–630 of 924 posts

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#621
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably time to design a plane that can't be sent into terrain in seconds by flipping a switch.

And a gun that doesn't let you point it at your face. And a knife that doesn't let you cut yourself. And a car that doesn't let you accelerate into a static object. And...

Hey my car won’t let me accelerate into a static object. It’s so good it will even slam on the brakes when driving 5mph in a parking garage because it thinks parked cars are oncoming traffic.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#622
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect any civil aviation engineer who goes "let's add hydrazine!" to fix problems has a fairly short career, lol.

Yeah, now you have at least two problems.

The prof from "chemicals I won't work with" has entered the chat...

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landing gear lever is rather prominently featured in the 787 in a panel central to the cockpit layout so that either pilot can easily reach it. For decades and across many manufacturers, the landing gear lever has traditionally featured a knob that deliberately resembles an airplane wheel. It's very hard to mistake it for anything else. It's actuated by simply moving it up or down. The fuel control switches are b…

> This idea strikes me as even more unlikely than someone shifting their moving vehicle into reverse while intending to activate the window wipers. I suspect you've never driven an older vehicle with the shifter on the steering column.

The pilot wasn’t flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite, but the point is that even after doing something correctly a thousand times, someone can make a mistake that seems unbelievable. The cutoff switches are operated every flight so the muscle memory is there, ready to be triggered at the wrong time. All we know is that something went wrong in the pilot's head in at least a single moment that caused him to perform a ground action during takeoff. Depressive murder-…

I keep reading "muscle memory" but the theory that one pilot shut down the engines instead of performing another action has nothing to do with muscle memory. Muscle memory allows you to perform both actions effectively but doesn't make you confuse them. Especially when the corresponding sequence of callouts and actions is practiced and repeated over and over. All of us have muscle memory for activating the left blink…

Another comment has the right analogy: has anyone here accidentally unplugged their mouse when they meant to hit caps lock?

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as the actions required take more than a second Where do you get this from? You have to pull up the switch with two fingers and move it to the other position and put it back in. This doesn't seem to take more than a second if deliberate. To me, it points to a Germanwings-style sabotage. And the "I didn't do it" seems to be a lie. Not very confident in it, just the likeliest to me. Though one can ask why not just pu…

> And the "I didn't do it" seems to be a lie. As has been pointed out elsewhere, even if one of the pilots did deliberately move the switches, it's not clear from the reporting so far if that's the same pilot who responded to the question. In other words, it's possible one pilot flipped the switches and then asked the other pilot why he cut off the fuel to misdirect and create more confusion. Edit: Of course this is…

And there’s motive to create misdirection: most life insurance policies have exclusions for suicide.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read through the boeing procedures, if an engine fails just after take off you delay cutting throttle or hitting the cutoff until you have positive climb and pass a certain altitude. Specifically because a mistake here would be so incredibly catastrophic. The following number of steps and verbal cross checks for then shutting down the engine are quite daunting. Not something applicable here, but still interest…

That’s absolutely applicable here. It means that an engine cutoff shouldn’t be allowed at all during certain parts of flight. It’s not crazy to think that a design fix would be to prevent those engagements during certain parts of takeoff (a certain window). It’s fly by wire anyway so it could presumably be done programmatically. MCAS was basically made to prevent user input that would send the plane into a dangerous…

> The computer overrode the inputs.

This is incorrect. The manual stabilizer trim thumb switches override MCAS.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#627
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are caused by operating the same lever in a slightly different manner. Not comparable to two completely differently designed levers placed far apart. Same goes for accidental acceleration instead of braking. Two of the same kind of lever right next to each other. Accidental acceleration while intending to turn on the wipers would be a fitting example, I don't think that happens though.

You’re just overlaying your mental model. Think of the action as a stored function. Maybe they’ve always recalled the function as part of a certain list. It can be a case where the lists get confused rather than the modality of input (lever etc)

Then that would be pilot error, and an aggravating error.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landing gear lever is rather prominently featured in the 787 in a panel central to the cockpit layout so that either pilot can easily reach it. For decades and across many manufacturers, the landing gear lever has traditionally featured a knob that deliberately resembles an airplane wheel. It's very hard to mistake it for anything else. It's actuated by simply moving it up or down. The fuel control switches are b…

> This idea strikes me as even more unlikely than someone shifting their moving vehicle into reverse while intending to activate the window wipers. I suspect you've never driven an older vehicle with the shifter on the steering column.

But the 787 doesn’t have an easily confused layout like that. The landing gear lever and fuel cut off switches are not two stalks on the yoke. Aircraft cockpits are deliberately designed in such a way that important things have differently shaped actuators that feel different from each other. Precisely so that you are not accidentally flipping the wrong switch by accident.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#629
Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since they can't continue as pilots if they seek treatment) the FAA encourages hiding mental illness by pilots. The Pilot Mental Health Campaign[1] has been advocating for legislation to change, HR 2591 the "Mental Health in Aviation Act of 2025"[2] has just been approved by committee for a general vote. I certainly hope it passes, and that other nations with dangerous policies prohibiting pilots from seeking treatment change as well.

[1] https://www.pmhc.org/

[2] https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/hr2591/BILLS-119hr2591ih....

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#630
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUD. His videos are just as consistently good as they always have been. The sponsor sections can be easily skipped (hint: SponsorBlock).

still, its annoying and he does not need it either with the number of views he gets on Youtube.

I am not that person and can't talk about his finances, nor can you.

If it's content I otherwise can enjoy for free, I don't mind sitting through a short sponsor spot every now and then, or just skipping through it if I'm in a hurry, which is still better than TV ads in that regard.

If I saw something like that on a time sensitive video (e.g. proper CPR example) or something very short then I'd rightfully be upset, but this is not the case.

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