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Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

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Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#221

Post by marssaxman »

fnord77 wrote: post #209
_fat_santa wrote: post #30

We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment performed. I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of…

5-Meo is kind of nasty because it has a non-linear pharmacology. the normal dose is 5-10mg, but LD50 in sheep is about 100mg, it might be as low as 30mg in humans. It absolutely should not be legal, at least to anyone. Perhaps require training in dealing with drugs with a low therapeutic index

> it might be as low as 30mg in humans.

That seems quite unlikely given that there are many 30mg dose trip reports, going as far back as TiHKAL.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#222

Post by the-rc »

dare944 wrote: post #194
piyiotisk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you sir? I am a big fan of the general magicians

My name is Jay. I guess I was one of the "lesser" magicians. I worked on the Telescript side, doing infrastructure for the Telescript engine. But I got to interact with both Bill and Andy, and Phil and Tony, who I followed to further ventures. My experience at General Magic was certainly eye opening and super educational.

OMG. I was a fan of Telescript (and Obliq) at the time. I still believe that Java and the hype surrounding it contributed to the demise of mobile agents, although I'm sure that reality was more complex than that. Kudos for having such a cool job!

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#223

Post by marssaxman »

lostmsu wrote: post #63
dtj1123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that line of reasoning extend to things like fast food and motorcycles in your eyes? Not trying to undermine your point, just genuinely curious.

I don't see why not. Maybe no need to ban altogether, but a heavy tax on both might be useful. For motorbikes maybe just exclude accidents from coverage.

> For motorbikes maybe just exclude accidents from coverage.

From personal experience, this is de-facto true regardless of what anyone thinks the law says.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#224

Post by zapzupnz »

diggan wrote: post #9
xeonmc wrote: post #2

Ok, where is this psychedelic community found? I must sample their handles for videogame character names.

> Ok, where is this psychedelic community found? Bit like asking where all the beer drinkers are! People who are into psychedelics come from all walks of life and we're everywhere :) Start talking about fringe stuff with people and eventually you'll stumble upon others.

I mean, it's not the same is it, because I can tell you where I can at least find beer drinkers … down the pub, at the bar.

If your bubble has people in it who have access to psychedelics, then great. If one's people doesn't have that, "just talk to people" is profoundly unhelpful. That's a very odd and specific conversation to bring up within some circles.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#225

Post by dtj1123 »

patcon wrote: post #57
dtj1123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that line of reasoning extend to things like fast food and motorcycles in your eyes? Not trying to undermine your point, just genuinely curious.

> things like fast food and motorcycles in your eyes? motorcycles...? in... my eyes? What wizardry is this? First "computers in my brain", now this. I'll have the singularity that you're smoking pls :) EDIT: was at first genuinely confused, and then tickled by my own misunderstanding

'in your view' would probably have been a better choice of words.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#226

Post by gehwartzen »

gavinray wrote: post #152
Euphorbium wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on this? I just so happen to have evrything to try this, but never even considered it.

I dissolved 20mg of 4-AcO-DMT in 1mL of bacteriostatic water in a sealed, sterile vial and then injected it intramuscularly into my glute. (If you do this, make sure you inject the upper-outer quadrant. The closer to your midline you go, the further the risk of you hitting a nerve.) If you're very experienced and want to do it for novelty's sake, go for it; I'd warn you, but anyone considering this should know what t…

That’s a good protocol for safely doing IM as you describe it. Though that seems like a big IM dose! :D I’m not too familiar with 4-aco-dmt so couldn’t say.

For 5-meo I generally do 6-8mg prepared as above. That seems subjectively close to 15-20mg vaped (powder in a glass pipe not in a “juice” vape).

But either of those are definitely a commitment to the ride, lol. I do like the mixed jaguar vape cartridges for micro dosing though (like Bill prepares them in the article). Very easy to control your dosage that way with the ability to start slow and add more with additional puffs.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#227

Post by gehwartzen »

wvlia5 wrote: post #52
gehwartzen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it feels like a completely different drug compared to nnDMT. 5-meo-DMT also feels very different depending on the roa from my experience (vaped vs IM)

Expand on roa effect difference?

It’s a little difficult to describe as 5-meo-DMT is not a visual type of trip. In fact I get almost no visuals from it even at relatively high doses.

I would describe 5-meo as a trip that gives you an immediate understanding of how life and the universe “works” at a very fundamental level. Your perception changes from analytical type thinking to all of a sudden just knowing how everything fits together and how you can control reality around you. A bit like pulling the curtain back and seeing the source code of realty but then also intuitively knowing how to manipulate and rewrite it and seeing the effects of that in real time.

I wish I could explain it better.

In terms of ROA between vaping and IM get the same type of knowing but from a different perspective. Injected feels like your personal programming code gets rewritten and you have a reality shift to having administrator privileges while vaped feels like the person that wrote the code is a co-pilot in your head explaining how the code is written and how it executes to present as reality to you.

There’s definitely a lot of overlap between each roa type though.

What I describe above is also my experience after dozens of trips with 5-Meo. The first few were definitely more confusing and at times overwhelming as the perspective shift can be severe. Once you get experienced though it’s a fun way to cruise around in “reality”

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#228

Post by Etheryte »

512 wrote: post #21
Forgeties79 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - I feel like we need a little bit more of a stripped down approach to drugs in the US. If you’re 18 or under, there need to be a lot of restrictions because we know for a fact that a lot of these things have a profound negative impact on brain development, and we also know that we don’t even fully understand the extent to which various mind altering substances can impact development. It’s just safer to say “no”…

> I know they will before that I'm curious in what demographic/location context you're in to say that. As a teen I wasn't aware of anyone in my social circles experimenting with drugs and would estimate usage to be <10% and from very particular kinds of people.

In general, interpolating statistics based on your personal world view is often misguided. Almost fifty percent of all Americans have tried drugs at least once in their lives [0], you simply won't know about it because most won't speak about it openly. Statistically you're unknowingly acquaintances with a number of people who fall into that category. To quote [1]:

> By the time they’re in 12th grade, 46.6% of teens have tried illicit drugs.

[0] https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/statistics/

[1] https://drugabusestatistics.org/teen-drug-use/

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#229

Post by notpushkin »

mosburger wrote: post #133
_fat_santa wrote: post #30

We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment performed. I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of…

Last year I underwent treatments for my treatment-resistant major depression using Ketamine. It was a clinical setting, where you'd get wired up to blood pressure, pulse-ox, and other monitors while you were monitored by an RN via video camera. This was IV Ketamine, so not the inhalants that are available now. According to the clinic, the inhalants (which they also offered) are also generally less effective than IV,…

> being able to "shut it off" was a good thing - you can turn an IV off, but once you inhale, you're on your own

How does it work? Is the half-life of it shorter when administered IV?

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#230

Post by OldfieldFund »

fnord77 wrote: post #209
_fat_santa wrote: post #30

We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment performed. I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of…

5-Meo is kind of nasty because it has a non-linear pharmacology. the normal dose is 5-10mg, but LD50 in sheep is about 100mg, it might be as low as 30mg in humans. It absolutely should not be legal, at least to anyone. Perhaps require training in dealing with drugs with a low therapeutic index

LD50 in sheep:

1–5 mg/kg IV

1–2 mg/kg SC

85 mg/kg O

In mice:

75–115 mg/kg IP

48 mg/kg IV

113 mg/kg SC

278 mg/kg O

They were administering over 30mg to humans in trials. (Metzner (2013); Shulgin and Shulgin (1997); Ott (2001); Davis et al. (2018); Uthaug et al. (2020a))

Sheep are susceptible to toxicity from certain tryptamine alkaloids because of their physiology.

These alkaloids, especially those that are N,N-dimethylated, can trigger neurological symptoms in sheep, such as convulsions, spasticity, and gait issues. The alkaloids are suspected to affect the brain and spinal cord by interacting with serotonin receptors.

5-MeO-DMT is an N,N-dimethylated compound. Its full chemical name is 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. That indicates the presence of two methyl groups attached to the nitrogen atom of the tryptamine backbone.

Stay safe, everyone!

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