111–120 of 924 posts
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Murder-suicide has happened on a few occasions. How many times has your malfunction occurred on an aircraft fuel system?
Not precisely the electrical malfunction, but dual engine shutdown has occurred, fortunately after landing: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/ana-787-engine-shutdown/
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> If I’m wrong, I’ll hang up my hat and never cover live news again. It easy to say that when you know there's likely no way to prove or disprove whether it as an accident or not. Unless a pilot left a note stating his future intentions, there's no way to determine their state of mind.
Someone took their hand, pulled one spring-loaded switch into the off position, and then did it the other switch moments later. Is there any way that could be accidental? If there was no mechanical failure, the only remaining possibility is deliberate action. And if it was mechanical failure, we’d see an emergency air worthiness directive being issued, which we haven’t.
I'm also interested in the earlier switch defects where the switches were installed with the locking mechanism disengaged on some 737s and inspection was advised for 787, but the incident aircraft was not inspected.
The airworthiness directive for that [1] indicates switches with locking disengaged should be replaced, but I wonder if it's possible to reingage the locking somehow, which could result in a situation where the locking wasn't engaged, the switches changed inadverdently and then when restored the run position the lock was engaged... that's a big reach, of course.
All that said, assuming the switch was working as designed, there's a semantic argument around deliberate and intentional. If the switch requires specific action, it's fair to call it deliberate action; but if the switcher thought they were activating a different switch, it's not murder.
Either way, there's no sense rushing to a conclusion of murder. Assuming one of the pilots activated the switch, they have already died and they are beyond the effects of human judgement; so we may as well wait for further information.
[1] https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1
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Are you completely sure you can considering that they are spring loaded and they are like 7-10cm apart judging by the size of other controls?
I don't understand your question. I have done this myself, am I completely sure?
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Someone took their hand, pulled one spring-loaded switch into the off position, and then did it the other switch moments later. Is there any way that could be accidental? If there was no mechanical failure, the only remaining possibility is deliberate action. And if it was mechanical failure, we’d see an emergency air worthiness directive being issued, which we haven’t.
People do things bizarre, inexplicable things all the time. It's called a brain fart... the human brain is complicated, sometimes wires just get crossed. Honestly I think the chances are good that you're right, but the way you're presenting it as absolutely certain strikes me as overconfident, borderline arrogant. Also, what's with the whole "staking your reputation" thing? What reputation? Are you some kind of famou…
I also don't recognize this guy's name, but I do find it ironic that his profile is possibly the most well-linked to a other identities I've ever seen on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=sillysaurusx
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I am, and I’m willing to stake my reputation on it. If I’m wrong, I’ll hang up my hat and never cover live news again. Pilots are drilled from day one that the fuel switches are sacred. After a few accidents where one engine failed and the pilot accidentally turned off the remaining functional engine, the training was overhauled so that it would be impossible for it to be an easy action done by mistake. One pilot is…
> If I’m wrong, I’ll hang up my hat and never cover live news again. It easy to say that when you know there's likely no way to prove or disprove whether it as an accident or not. Unless a pilot left a note stating his future intentions, there's no way to determine their state of mind.
it makes sense to me that the pilot who said "I did not do it" actually did do it without realizing it, was supposed to be putting the landing gear up when he committed a muscle memory mistake. it happened around the time the landing gear should be up, and this explanation matches what was said in the cockpit, and the fact that the landing gear wasn't retracted. I think this idea was even floated initially by the you…
even though that raising the gear is a up motion and fuelcut off is a down motion?
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https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/NM-18-33 well hold your horses there... from the FAA in their 2019 report linked above: > The Boeing Company (Boeing) received reports from operators of Model 737 airplanes that the fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged. The fuel control switches (or engine start switches) are installed on the control stand in the flight deck and used by the pilot to sup…
Is it easy to inadvertantly move both switches in such a scenario?
Why can the pilot shut off the fuel during takeoff?
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What is the path of the wires from the switch onward? Do they go into a digital input of the flight computer, or do they directly feed the fuel control valves? https://simpleflying.com/boeing-787-technical-features-guide... " Advanced electric controls The 787 entered service with an improved fly-by-wire flight control system. Rather than mechanical processes, the systems convert flight deck crew inputs into electric…
Can't find a definitive source right now, but everything is implying there are discrete lines - at least one for command signal to the FADECs, and a separate sense line to the DFDAU for packaging up and sending to the EAFR. That lines up with design philosophy on this stuff of sensing control input data as close to the source as you can get.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/politics/boeing-sensor-737-ma...
787 (Dreamliner) was pushing hard for weight reduction, and it would not surprise me at all if the switch output fed a digital computer input rather than routing directly to the fuel shutoff valves, but I don't have any direct knowledge of this.