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37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

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Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#171

Post by djt »

pg wrote: post #152
dlss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg. From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?" All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article. I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as muc…

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

lay off Paul, he's not making an arguement here that one is better than the other, he's arguing that the press wants stories that pull readership. Writing that Instagram sold for $1B is more interesting than someone that makes a few million in profit a year and has 4 day work weeks.

I myself side with the 37 signals guys that profit is king, but that takes nothing away from my friends that are in start ups chasing big coin.

Either is a viable strategy and i think it's terrible that this community doesnt allow both to co-exist as viable options.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#172

Post by jamwt »

I've read a lot of Jason's stuff and he has a lot of insightful things to say about running a successful small technology business. He probably understands it about as well as anyone on earth.

The part of the rhetoric I'm not as fond of is this false dichotomy that he often raises of "either small business is right or big-startups are right". Both can be right--they just have different goals. And there are strong relationships and dependencies between each type that make it particularly disingenuous to slander each other.

It reminds me a bit of the "you didn't build that" hubbub happening in American politics lately. There seems to be a "I did this" hubris, as you create high-quality web services catering to small teams.

Let's get real: you are building web services consumed by a browser (Netscape) on someone's Macbook Pro (Apple); your data found its way there over some serious switching infrastructure (Cisco); you stock your offices with goods from the best online retailers--oh yeah, and they host a bunch of your bulk data too (Amazon); your site is indexed by the major search engines and you expose your brand to potential customers via sophisticated advertising networks (Google); your keep your friends and fans in the loop on what your business is up to via massive social networks (Twitter).

Many of these companies were ambitious, they had low probabilities of success, they had much higher capital needs and a tighter window to hit the market.. than a slightly better product management system for small teams. But these VC-powered longshots--the lucky few winners--now form the beating heart of our industry. They provide good jobs to hundreds of thousands of people. And.. would 37 signals even exist without them?

Jason wants to make great money and have a good business and take Friday off. That is fine, that is seriously great. I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that? That's a damn good way to go.

But some people want to "make a dent in the world". They need some money to do that! And they might fail! And rich guys are willing to gamble on the outcome! Who cares? It's audacious fucking fun to try to change the world, and sometimes it works. Afterwards, we can take a shower and feel clean and wholesome about the birth of 38 signals.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#173

Post by davidw »

larrys wrote: post #142
davidw wrote: post #63

> Actually, my cleaning lady, for example, she’s great. There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up after other people day in and day out. ( Edit to change the wording just a bit) > The other interesting thing about restaurants is you could have a dozen Italian restaurants in the cit…

"There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it." Let me help you. But first I have to get my shovel. Because that's the typical shit that is heaved by the "haves" on the "have not's" try and make them seem humble and not anything special. Take Oprah. She just loves to talk about how this and that are so expensive as if she's just an ordinary person like the rest of us. He laid it on a little to thick wi…

Calling people names is not really ok with the spirit or guidelines of Hacker News: if that's not something you'd say to DHH (who often pops in to comment here) in person, you shouldn't be writing it.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#174

Post by jschulenklopper »

nameuserc wrote: post #149
pg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

This is a fair point. Journalists are just using available public information. 37Signals' numbers are not public. "Talk is cheap" as they say. I don't disagree with what he is saying in the quotes - that people focus too much on raising money as "business success". This is without question. But then again I still do not understand the value of 37Signals (compared to any other software company with aggressive marketin…

> What does the 37Signals software do?

I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com before posting this?

> So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"?

No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#175

Post by davidw »

anamax wrote: post #161
larrys wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All he says is that her business model is a good business model, and he's inspired by it." He says: "She’s been doing it some twenty-odd years, and that’s just an incredible success story. To me that’s far more interesting" I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. What would be at least somewhat i…

> I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. Project much? > What would be at least somewhat interesting is if she figured out a way to get paid 2x the hourly rate and/or get houses cleaned in 1/2 the time. How do you know that she hasn't? He says that she's happy. He doesn't know much about how it m…

I don't really think we can get anywhere with speculation: he might see her happy because people are pretty good at putting on a mask in professional situations. Or maybe she just really is happy.

However, in the aggregate, I'd be willing to bet on most cleaning people preferring the income, and freedom that 37 signals have. With that kind of money, you have a lot of options that someone making cleaning wages just doesn't have.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#176

Post by [deleted] »

emmett wrote: post #156
saraid216 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that there exist more than two business models in the whole of the world, right? Where do you get this strange taxonomy of "products" versus "services" anyways?

You're being needlessly pedantic. It's pretty obvious that by "service" he means a business where you are paid per hour you work: all freelancers, consultants, and all other businesses where the owner is a critical daily employee. Yes, that's not a typical word for the distinction, but you know what he means.

[deleted]

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#177

Post by saraid216 »

18pfsmt wrote: post #135
saraid216 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you feel that I am incorrect? Yup. That's exactly how I feel. I don't know why you're bragging about your incorrectness all over the internet, though.

I can't tell for sure, but it seems like you all know each other outside of HN, and perhaps have a relationship that is unknown to the rest of us. I think it is better for you to keep these things to yourselves, and not involve this community.

No, this was not the case. My name is in my profile. He is, however, the first person who made the mistake of thinking it would help his cause to use it.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#178

Post by pg »

dlss wrote: post #159
pg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

It sounds like you might not be familiar with the author Jason referred to right before his critique of the current focus on size: Ricardo Semler. In his books he develops a very humanistic look at the role of businesses in our lives. As entrepreneurs, employees, and as customers. I won't be able to do the ideas justice here, but I will try: A business obsessed with revenue and growth is like a person obsessed with h…

I understand quite well the idea of company that isn't focused simply on revenue growth. I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others. But articles of that type are case studies, not news, which is why I explicitly distinguished between them.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#179

Post by MnkyPwz »

pg wrote: post #152
dlss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg. From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?" All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article. I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as muc…

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

"And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and cafes probably do great work and treat their employees well. Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't."

Personally I believe there are many great lessons to be learned from those local/profitable businesses which if written I'd gladly consume. If the press would only dig for those types of stories I'm sure they would come back up with gold.

As an entrepreneur who is interested in growing a long lasting and sustainable business there are many lessons which I can imagine a seasoned business owner, no matter the market, could teach me (i.e,: how had they dealt with times of feast as well famine. What was it like when they had they'r first repeat customer, etc.).

"What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size."

To be honest I believe this sums Jason's point in one line.

The current tech culture doesn't seem to acknowledge nor celebrate the stories of those founders, entrepreneurs, developers, or business minds whose offerings are geared towards providing impecable customer service; so that doesn't get written about fairly frequently.

Now I may be wrong in my observations but it would seem as if this current generation of the tech vanguard simply aren't interested in those things. The signal, which has become an ever increasing continuous one, seems to be about more, more and bigger, bigger, bigger.

Hey, maybe that's all there is to it, but I'd like to believe we've got much more in us than simply who can amass the largest seed round, or who has had their Series A round over subscribed.

Again, I may be wrong but just a thought.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#180

Post by zizee »

jamwt wrote: post #172

I've read a lot of Jason's stuff and he has a lot of insightful things to say about running a successful small technology business. He probably understands it about as well as anyone on earth. The part of the rhetoric I'm not as fond of is this false dichotomy that he often raises of "either small business is right or big-startups are right". Both can be right--they just have different goals. And there are strong rel…

I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that?

My guess it is in response to some quarters not respecting "lifestyle business" startups. There ARE (or were) people attacking that.

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